Support TOS Forum by making a donation or subscribing as a VIP member today!

Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Things I Still Don't Understand
#1
First off, let me say that I'm sorry. I try to keep up, and I'm sure all this information is somewhere on this forum or on the wiki, but I still haven't found it, even though I read everything in the general discussion and some of the meta discussion. We're always told in school to ask questions because if we have them, someone else probably does. So if you're feeling helpful, here's a bunch of things I still don't understand.

HxH questions:

Hisoka: What is the distance metric for his active? Is it x-axis + y-axis from original position? Or does it just have to do with number of positions traversed? Like if I went from one end of the board to the other and then came back, would I get no bonus?

Hisoka: Why do people play this guy? Oricles mentions meme teams and Diaochan and at this point, I'm totally lost. What members do you put in the team, who do you ally with, and why play this rather than anything else? If it's fun, that's a fair answer, but is it fun?

Gon: "by dissolving runestones of the Monster's attribute in its column, the Monster's attack x 2 additionally." OK, I read several answers to this when the series came out, and I didn't even understand the answers. Who is "the Monster"? Just Gon or everyone on the team? Second, is it at least 1 runestone in the column (so the normal 3 green 3 dark bottom row suffices to fulfill the condition) or is it like a column dissolve below the monster?

Gon: This is team-building advice, but who do you put on the team? I have Circe / Sun Shangxiang / Endor / Yocto, mostly because I think that was the test team they gave us. I more or less only use Circe and Endor. I've seen people with Medea, but does it make sense to have non-Earth non-Dark cards? If dark is only 50% with Gon as leader should I maximize earth cards? I wish the sample teams were more instructive for team construction purposes.

Killua: Oricles said he didn't see much use for this guy outside HxH teams, but lots of people put another one inside the Gon-Killua team. Is he worth a member slot or not? Is it just for the 8 CD dodge?

Kurapika: Skill description says: "its damage overpower the enemies." What does that mean? Before switching it says "its damage CAN overpower the enemies." Is there a difference?

Meruem: I like unusual fun teams (but as you can tell, I have trouble figuring out the basics of standard teams, so I more or less play Azathoth until a stage makes me do otherwise), but no one in my guild has him as adjutant and I never see him among the adventurers. Is this not a thing?

OK, that's all for now. I feel like I understood the Crash Fever patch, but this one just feels overly complicated to me.

Reply
#2
(06-29-2018, 04:50 AM)Mj7 Wrote: Hisoka: What is the distance metric for his active? Is it x-axis + y-axis from original position? Or does it just have to do with number of positions traversed? Like if I went from one end of the board to the other and then came back, would I get no bonus?

You add up both the horizontal and vertical difference of the start and end position. So if you move the rune two positions to the right and two positions up, that's a distance of 4. If you move the rune from the far left to the far right on the same row, then the distance is 5. For each distance your attack increases by x0.2 to a max of x1.8 for a distance of 9 or more.

Quote:Kurapika: Skill description says: "its damage overpower the enemies." What does that mean? Before switching it says "its damage CAN overpower the enemies." Is there a difference?

"Overpower the enemy" means that it will have attributive advantage against all enemies. Effectively it means that attack against water, fire, earth and light enemies will be increased by x1.5. Attack against dark enemies won't change as it already has attribute advantage and thus x1.5 attack bonus. Both before/after switch skills are exactly the same but for some reasons they used different wordings.

Reply
#3
I can't answer anything about Hisoka, I have the opinion that he's just a trash card and I don't understand Oriceles recommending him at all, even as a member, let alone a leader.

The wording in Gon is bad, usually "the Monster" refers to the card itself only, but in Gon's case it is the whole team. Only 1 runestone of the appropriate element must be dissolved so if you have 3E-3D or vice versa in the Gon/Killua team, you will always get the 2x unless the bottom row gets frozen or something.

If Gon is your leader, you should not bring Earth converters. This is because when Gon is leader, Dark dissolves count as dissolving every other color. Whereas when Killua is leader, Earth does this. Example: if Gon is your leader and you dissolve only the bottom row, all your Dark cards will get the equivalent of one set of runes, while all of your Earth will get the set of Earth, as well as an additional 50% from the Dark.

Circe is a good pick, Medea is alright also because a team 2x is stronger than the loss of a consistent 2x for just one member, but as humans are fragile, it may not be the most ideal thing to stack multiple Witches all the time. Yocto and Endor are good members, and Endor with Dragonware gets an additional 2x when you dissolve 20 runes which is quite common for Gon/Killua. There aren't many Dark humans at this time while there are many Earth humans, so if you want off-color cards, it may be easier to remove Dark over Earth. The reason you see multiple Killuas is because he is a good burst, convert, and utility, and the only other good standard options for dark human are Yocto, Endor, and Tawil.

Kurapika's description means that he is always super-effective when his active is on, he will always be treated as the superior element in the RPS matchup of elements. This is an additional 1.5x to all elements, though he would have already had this against Dark. It effectively means his buff is a 6x. The only difference between pre-switch and post-switch active is that post uses EP, AFAIK.

Meruem seems DOA. I dunno. Even if he's good, he'll never be any better than he is right now, and I think that turns people off using a card like that. Whereas cards that are MH original can always get buffed in the future.

[Image: hDTtKNv.png]
LF: Love and condo buyers. JK.
|Skill Training Guide For Newbies|
Reply
#4
(06-29-2018, 05:27 AM)Fauxy Wrote: I can't answer anything about Hisoka, I have the opinion that he's just a trash card and I don't understand Oriceles recommending him at all, even as a member, let alone a leader.

CD6 3x teamwide is a very powerful booster, and it fits perfectly with Gon's Jajanken which always starts in the corners (to maximize the multiplier without Boundary Breaking you need to move to the opposite corner). Using him as a leader with Biscuit allows for 9 enchanted full-team attack runes at CD4, which is pretty huge. You could compare him to Ghroth, trading stats for a more useful set of members (Humans actually offer much better utilities and synergies than Dragons/Beasts/Demons at present). Chrollo adds a load of stats. Rococo and Yocto are great matches as well because of their massive Heart production. PR Starters, Chizuru or Sih Kong Yu are also good.
Main: 59,402,542
Alt: 84,088,062

SM History Chart | Amel List
Active Skill Catalog (Spreadsheet)
Reply
#5
(06-29-2018, 05:15 AM)joetjef Wrote:
(06-29-2018, 04:50 AM)Mj7 Wrote: Hisoka: What is the distance metric for his active? Is it x-axis + y-axis from original position? Or does it just have to do with number of positions traversed? Like if I went from one end of the board to the other and then came back, would I get no bonus?

You add up both the horizontal and vertical difference of the start and end position. So if you move the rune two positions to the right and two positions up, that's a distance of 4. If you move the rune from the far left to the far right on the same row, then the distance is 5. For each distance your attack increases by x0.2 to a max of x1.8 for a distance of 9 or more.


Quote:Kurapika: Skill description says: "its damage overpower the enemies." What does that mean? Before switching it says "its damage CAN overpower the enemies." Is there a difference?

"Overpower the enemy" means that it will have attributive advantage against all enemies. Effectively it means that attack against water, fire, earth and light enemies will be increased by x1.5. Attack against dark enemies won't change as it already has attribute advantage and thus x1.5 attack bonus. Both before/after switch skills are exactly the same but for some reasons they used different wordings.

This is very helpful, thank you. (Also thanks for all the stuff on the wiki, I'd be totally lost without it.) I'll admit, Hisoka active seems lame regardless, even more lame that you have to jump through hoops to get x1.8.

Thanks for the thing about Kurapika, I don't recall them using this "overpower" language in other cards, and the different language before and after switch just blew my mind.
Reply
#6
(06-29-2018, 05:27 AM)Fauxy Wrote: I can't answer anything about Hisoka, I have the opinion that he's just a trash card and I don't understand Oriceles recommending him at all, even as a member, let alone a leader.

The wording in Gon is bad, usually "the Monster" refers to the card itself only, but in Gon's case it is the whole team. Only 1 runestone of the appropriate element must be dissolved so if you have 3E-3D or vice versa in the Gon/Killua team, you will always get the 2x unless the bottom row gets frozen or something.

If Gon is your leader, you should not bring Earth converters. This is because when Gon is leader, Dark dissolves count as dissolving every other color. Whereas when Killua is leader, Earth does this. Example: if Gon is your leader and you dissolve only the bottom row, all your Dark cards will get the equivalent of one set of runes, while all of your Earth will get the set of Earth, as well as an additional 50% from the Dark.

Circe is a good pick, Medea is alright also because a team 2x is stronger than the loss of a consistent 2x for just one member, but as humans are fragile, it may not be the most ideal thing to stack multiple Witches all the time. Yocto and Endor are good members, and Endor with Dragonware gets an additional 2x when you dissolve 20 runes which is quite common for Gon/Killua. There aren't many Dark humans at this time while there are many Earth humans, so if you want off-color cards, it may be easier to remove Dark over Earth. The reason you see multiple Killuas is because he is a good burst, convert, and utility, and the only other good standard options for dark human are Yocto, Endor, and Tawil.

Kurapika's description means that he is always super-effective when his active is on, he will always be treated as the superior element in the RPS matchup of elements. This is an additional 1.5x to all elements, though he would have already had this against Dark. It effectively means his buff is a 6x. The only difference between pre-switch and post-switch active is that post uses EP, AFAIK.

Meruem seems DOA. I dunno. Even if he's good, he'll never be any better than he is right now, and I think that turns people off using a card like that. Whereas cards that are MH original can always get buffed in the future.

"Quote" isn't working for me, so I apologize for not interweaving my comments with yours in a more sensible way.

(a) Thanks for the clarity on Gon. I kinda thought that was it (made sense from the sample team and maybe somebody said it in discussion), but when I saw people playing off-color members I questioned that interpretation.

(b) OK, so no Earth converters: I'll deep-six Sun Shangxiang. Maybe I'll do Duncan + Endor.

© Meruem: OK, thanks. I really wanted there to be a fun, free-to-play team that required a little bit of investment but was still cool to play. I know: pipe dream. Too bad I maxed his weekly companions. I got some sphinxes, sure, but I doubt I'll ever use them now.
Reply
#7
(06-29-2018, 07:12 AM)KaerfNomekop Wrote:
(06-29-2018, 05:27 AM)Fauxy Wrote: I can't answer anything about Hisoka, I have the opinion that he's just a trash card and I don't understand Oriceles recommending him at all, even as a member, let alone a leader.

CD6 3x teamwide is a very powerful booster, and it fits perfectly with Gon's Jajanken which always starts in the corners (to maximize the multiplier without Boundary Breaking you need to move to the opposite corner). Using him as a leader with Biscuit allows for 9 enchanted full-team attack runes at CD4, which is pretty huge. You could compare him to Ghroth, trading stats for a more useful set of members (Humans actually offer much better utilities and synergies than Dragons/Beasts/Demons at present). Chrollo adds a load of stats. Rococo and Yocto are great matches as well because of their massive Heart production. PR Starters, Chizuru or Sih Kong Yu are also good.

This is pretty enlightening, thanks! I think I misremembered Hisoka's skill and thought it was max x1.8  (lame) rather than max x3 (great). Unfortunately, Biscuit is the only HxH seal card I didn't get, and I somehow missed Chrollo too. Don't have Rococo either (I've got three Morses, and two Yoctos), and I don't have Chizuru. Sih Kong Yu I do have, but recently failed miserably in his amelioration III battle and now I hate him. So-- cool, I see the virtues of a Hisoka team, but I don't think I'll ever have the members for it before it's outdated.
Reply
#8
(06-29-2018, 06:12 PM)Mj7 Wrote: This is very helpful, thank you. (Also thanks for all the stuff on the wiki, I'd be totally lost without it.) I'll admit, Hisoka active seems lame regardless, even more lame that you have to jump through hoops to get x1.8.

Thanks for the thing about Kurapika, I don't recall them using this "overpower" language in other cards, and the different language before and after switch just blew my mind.
You're welcome Smile

KaerfNomekop explained it better, but the base attack boost is x1.2 which can increase to x3 with a distance of 9 or more.

Chrollo's active also overpower all enemies and Iron Fan does the same for Fire only.
Reply
#9
(06-29-2018, 06:12 PM)Mj7 Wrote:
(06-29-2018, 05:15 AM)joetjef Wrote:
(06-29-2018, 04:50 AM)Mj7 Wrote: Hisoka: What is the distance metric for his active? Is it x-axis + y-axis from original position? Or does it just have to do with number of positions traversed? Like if I went from one end of the board to the other and then came back, would I get no bonus?

You add up both the horizontal and vertical difference of the start and end position. So if you move the rune two positions to the right and two positions up, that's a distance of 4. If you move the rune from the far left to the far right on the same row, then the distance is 5. For each distance your attack increases by x0.2 to a max of x1.8 for a distance of 9 or more.


Quote:Kurapika: Skill description says: "its damage overpower the enemies." What does that mean? Before switching it says "its damage CAN overpower the enemies." Is there a difference?

"Overpower the enemy" means that it will have attributive advantage against all enemies. Effectively it means that attack against water, fire, earth and light enemies will be increased by x1.5. Attack against dark enemies won't change as it already has attribute advantage and thus x1.5 attack bonus. Both before/after switch skills are exactly the same but for some reasons they used different wordings.

This is very helpful, thank you. (Also thanks for all the stuff on the wiki, I'd be totally lost without it.) I'll admit, Hisoka active seems lame regardless, even more lame that you have to jump through hoops to get x1.8.

Thanks for the thing about Kurapika, I don't recall them using this "overpower" language in other cards, and the different language before and after switch just blew my mind.

It's appeared before, just on niche and/or rare cards:
[Image: mrvUKKA.png]
Also available (AM): All VR Greek, KOF Kyo/Mai/Iori, LDB
UID: 22963116
Reply
#10
(06-29-2018, 05:27 AM)Fauxy Wrote: The wording in Gon is bad, usually "the Monster" refers to the card itself only, but in Gon's case it is the whole team. Only 1 runestone of the appropriate element must be dissolved so if you have 3E-3D or vice versa in the Gon/Killua team, you will always get the 2x unless the bottom row gets frozen or something.

Thanks for the info. I always thought you had to dissolve a vertical set under the specific team member for the 2x. But in this case it makes it much easier to spin, but rather need to reorganize my team to make sure Earth card stick close Gon.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk
Reply


Forum Jump:


Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)