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Oriceles Meta Analysis [16.0] + Tier list 18-09-2018
#1
Information 
Introduction
Welcome to analysis for Version 16.0 in this patch the very hype goes around the upcoming Virtual Rebirth for Babylon Gods, as well as the heavy speculation of an upcoming Earth Genesis Black Card somewhere around September. In this patch we arrive with a meta shifting in to tanky Gods that pair with an already established pool of members and can do very well with cards of their own series. There is a lot to check for performance with everyone now clearing the final chapters of Mechanical City in Void of the Realm and the newly added area of the "10th seal" which bans Dragon, Beast and Elf until you defeat the boss of the first area.

Tier List
I have decided to move the tier list to Google Sheets, this way I can keep editing the same file with less BBcode headache. And here is the link: http://bit.ly/TOSTierList

Sorry but this time I can't follow up with how many changes I applied to the tier list, so just see it for yourself, this update already includes the placements for the rebalanced leaders and the Hindu Gods, Babylon is set on standard because they have just arrived.


Important Links:
15.4 Meta thread
Newbies and Returning Players guide
Patch Notes: “Tower of Saviors” 15.4 Version Updates on “Apocalyptic Sanskrit”
Discord Server Invitation


『Seven Chakras』 - 『Hindu Gods

This series is really strong so I will highlight their obvious pros and cons, as for if I think you should invest this seal, well that actually will depend in the amount of Gods you have available in your inventory since any of the three leaders is able to use Gods of any attribute but perform better with same attribute or related.

Pros:
  • Common cards can get their cooldown instantly upon first round of the stage if you fulfill the condition of only Gods, which is amazing to fight in Void of the realm or other stages where the first wave is really a gate keeper
  • Boyciana styled effects, common card effects last multiple round until their cooldown is back
  • All the common cards are good, seriously there is no card with a meh skill in this seal, Agni for instance was speculated to be a jackpot when first announced
  • Newbies and returnings players can get a full team working as long as they get all the common cards, the trio of Varuni, Parvati and Agni is really strong, Lakshmi shines more in Vishnu than in other teams and Varuna is meant to be a helper for Shiva
  • Leaders are quite versatile and oriented in to utility, and their damage output is absurdly high
  • Know your memes, already stablished God members like AR Zodiacs and Investiture are common thing when building around this leaders so you don't have to train unpopular members to make them viable somehow
  • Skills can be maxed with Lizards, so no worry about being forced to farm biweekly or events to max a specific 600 round mob, you can get the Lizards and related any time so you don't need to hurry on maxing them
  • Easy to push debuffs away since all this cards love to fill your left bar
Cons:
  • Since the common cards are so good and their skill charges quite fast and last many turns there is no point on having dupe common cards, and from the leaders probably the only one you will benefit from having a dupe would be Brahma. this makes the overall value of duplicated cards pointless so investing heavy in this seal is not advised.
  • Being race specific limits the amount of members that new players might use, specially everyone that maxed Human and Demons in the previous patches, this shouldn't be much of a problem since like I already mentioned, you can build a full team with the common cards
  • Neutralize/Reset wipes the common cards, not much to say about this, you will have to time the effects properly, yet I think the leaders are strong enough to handle many of the existing scenarios where this enemy skill can be problematic
  • Racism, right now shouldn't be much of a problem with the amount of leaders we have around, yet depending heavy on this guys is problematic since they are enforced in to Gods with the exception of Shiva
  • Brahma and Shiva are okey, I mean, if you got Atlantis, Pompeii, Gon or Yusuke you shouldn't worry much about getting this 2 guys because they are even more limited in their member pool and the amount of tools they have built-in. Vishnu in the other hand is replacing Maya as viable leader for Lucifer and can use many good Light and Dark Gods that have been waiting forever to work together
[Image: 64] Maheśvara - Shiva: I guess that Stith finally found a buddy to play with. Shiva team skill is what makes him relevant, having a damage reduction probably on par with Atlantis as long as you can dissolve the 5 God runestones, also his active provides 2 columns so it is pretty likely that you will be fulfilling that condition without much problem, and that shared runestone effect is great if you bring something like Ithaqua or Amaterasu. He also  can use Phantom Xi without loosing the effect thanks to that team skill as well, so there is not much on missing the ability of using Cassandra who for many represent the core power of water mono.

[Image: 65] Chittamatra - Brahma: Personally I feel that Brahma is busted, his gameplay has a learning curve, but once you dominate the trick on how to control the skydrops you can land massive chunks of fire runestones every round. If you don't have him you can play the Brahmaterasu team since by dissolving 5 combo will make it drop 15 runestones of any type and trigger Amaterasu extra multiplier, this brings an absurd damage output, this is what I've been running in Arena because I haven't got any rare yet. Fire gods alone have quite a lot of utility and multiple boosts, Agni is there as well to help Brahma do his crazy skydrops. Overall I find him a fun leader to play, but as of now I don't see him as key or something that is necessary to have after play testing him and trying him with meme teams.

[Image: 64] Divine Pureness - Parvati: So far the only viable leaders that come to my head that can user her are Gaia, Athena, or any of the rares from this series since those are capable of using Gods of any attribute. I think that the one that from all those that I mentioned, I think that the one that can use Parvati the most is Gaia because of the additional 2.5x that can get by dissolving 5 runestones under her column.

[Image: 64] Dark Perception - Lakshmi: Right now there are only 3 teams outside of the rares from this series that can use Lakshmi and those are: Maya, and Lü Dongbin+He Xian'gu, What I don't like about her is that despite the buff is persistent you still need to fulfill the condition to get the effect working, and I'm not sure on how reliable it can be, but overall she is really good.

[Image: 64] Ascetic Mind - Vishnu: I think I have been waiting to see a Light and Dark God since the Huang Fu Duo era. Leader and Active skill of Shiva are quite straight forward with all the tools he offer, I haven't tried him quite much, but I can say that just like Brahma he has a learning curve on how to control his team skill since it is recommened to dissolve in columns to get the complete skydrop. As other rares, you can add any other God you can think off, but clearly he is the best leader for using Lucifer, Luna and Pollux right now, other known Light and Dark Gods like Persephone, Anubis and Qi Tian Di can do very well.

[Image: 64] Lust for Blood - Varuna: The thing with Varuna is that apparently his skill can stack with Poseidon to generate a flood. I would also recommend to use him with Priestess Xi or Pontos. In Pontos case we have been waiting long for a steady way of keeping his multiplier up like Erebus can do thanks to Hel, so yeah Varuna can solve the problem somehow and help to keep Phantom Xi multiplier up as well in other teams where Troy is actually not a good option to use.

[Image: 64] Rage of Aversion - Agni: In paper he is a cheaper alternative to Tsukuyomi that can be used outside of steam rolling teams. He is without a doubt the common with most value.

[Image: 64] Obsessive Desire - Varuni: She has a good plot and nice personality ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°). That recovery boost despite of being small, might be massive when played right (ie. pair with Hel for even higher overheal) and can be a game changer when facing those enemies that deplete their HP every round with Vortex and -50% recovery debuff (yes I have seen that skill too often and I'm hating them a lot). You can stack this buff along with Lakshmi and Parvati since the very first round if the team consist of only Gods, so yes, you can probably steam roll when pairing them together.

Major Gods of Babylon - Virtual Rebirth

[Image: 64][Image: 64][Image: 64][Image: 64][Image: 64][Image: 64][Image: 64][Image: 64][Image: 64][Image: 64]

They received all the tools they deserved to overcome the main obstacles that obstruct their gameplay the most, and as I expected they also received God Runestones as part of their leader skill. The thing that I find the most interesting about them is not really their Refinement version but Divergence since they got the fasted column dissolve in the game at CD:5 and the runestones dropped can be used to form the columns without much problem. If you have copies to spare I do recommend getting 2 for using Divergence as member for Refinement.

Mech Mythological Beasts [Image: icon_new.gif]

This is something totally unexpected, there were no hints about them and somehow this cards look attractive but awkward at the same time, as usual they might be tools that are ahead of what we have right now. Another weird fact is that they get Power Release as alternate form but they use an evolution material so they are kinda cheap to max. I want to get them all and test them together, I wouldn't be surprised if by next Chinese New Year we get Machina version  Nian to be the leader. Since they are a free grab from lost relic and friend point seal I think everyone should not have a hard time maxing this series.

[Image: 64] Mech Azure Dragon Qinlong: The first thing that comes to the mind of every that reads about him is Mobius, mainly because he is able to provide 2 columns of enchanted Water Runestones and buff the leader and adjutant which in Mobius case should be ideal since her leader skill focus are the extra attacks, yet the feedback I got from players over Discord in the past 2 days has been that he is not enough of a wonder to fix her problems, the damage is still missing, no utility benefits and it's hard to stall with the team, I want to encourage players to take another test of this Qinlong as leader instead because the bonuses look kinda attractive for the low machina base attack, Dragon as members is a trap, they should only be added if you need some utilities but as we know, Machina recovery is also kinda problematic (not for this card case, 457 recovery wew), yet as leader he is just that bonuses, no major benefits and I'm not sure but it seems that the column dissolve will only affect leader and adjutant for the additional 1.5x.

[Image: 64] Mech Vermilion Bird - Zhuque: Yes, we can talk about using with Epsilon to get even more runestones and get the skydrop along healing to full, but I think Epsilon is fine going with Delta, so I would rather say, let's try Mech Zhuque with Mech Qinlong, you get the 2 columns and the full heal. As for leader, well I don't really see much use unless you are doing some form of grind team with Mech Xuanwu.

[Image: 64] Mech Emerald Tortoise - Xuanwu: After this video of  Haza+Xuanwu with 3 Ganesha I think Madhead got really inspired, now we have a new sniper meme that can grind really hard with the right members. The only place I can see this active working is at Li Tieguai who really needs more Machina alternatives.




[Image: 64] Mech White Tiger - Baihu: UPDATE [Image: alarm.gif] Sadly it lost the delay ability from his alternate path, I think basic utility like ignoring armor was needed for machina, specially for teams that can't burst big numbers but a huge total with the sum of all the extra attacks. As for leader, I think that we are far from getting a proper Light and Dark machina team, as some of my friends suggested, the bonus of 100% fuel should be applying only for him, my bad thanks for the folk over discord, the bonus apply similar to Gaia/Phanes where the monsters with columns dissolved under them get the additional bonus, I got confused because of Madhead poor wording skills.

[Image: 64] Mech Somber Beast - Taotie: I think he is a bit more capable of being a leader than Baihu but mostly because he is able to provide runestones with his active skill which is a 2 type conversion and brings a built-in mini delta, I think that either Zhuque or Schnauzer should e paired with him to actually see some results. 

Black Card

[Image: 65] Glorius Amazon - Mesopotamia: She is a direct tier S material having a kit with very little to ask for, Earth such amazing pool of cards that you can either go for a grind approach with Shyplant/Ubume or head to full burst setup with Circe, Gon, Alibaba etc. Seriously if you can afford to get this card do it, multiple copies are just for meme burst. Personally I think she alone brings all the damage the team needs so you can focus in utility members.

Arena

[Image: 64] Ganesha the Elephant Deity: The God of peanuts has an amazing artwork but it goes in to a waste because the skill is about the same as Inari but including a Snipe as second part of the active. Personally I will ignore it, I don't feel this card is worth my Arena points, if I need a beast snipe I already have Warlike Soldier Stinger.

Biweekly

[Image: 64] Valencia the Guide of Destiny: UPDATE [Image: alarm.gif] It turns out that I did my early conclusions about this guy based on what I read in game and in Wikia, but it turns out that his skill is mistranslated and that he makes ALL beast members in the team to launch extra attacks, so basically this makes the team in to something like Machina for 1 turn. Also the enchanted runestones can help to make it so those extra attacks also break enchanted shields, and using Pegasus extra attacks in lynx is quite a huge damage output, so yeah this correction on the translation made me change my mind, and now I'm planning to farm him.

[Image: 64] Lambda the Benevolent Healer: A new member for Turing which is a kinda better alternative to Phi, the fuel granted is 1% per 1000 HP, Turing already has the members she needs, but I think this guy can make things go faster and 2.2 atk at CD:6 is really strong. His attack when double maxed is 1942 if used as member for Turing, if played in Li Tieguai/Pompeii/Mobius he will have pretty low attack stat so keep that in mind. And yes, I'm also going to farm this guy.

[Image: 64] Sonata the Follower of the Diva: To be honest I was expecting a shorter cooldown, but CD 8 for an active skill that contains 3 effects is actually good value. The condition makes it quite obvious that this guy is meant to be used along with Shiva, I guess that it can also be used with Cornflower who is always in desperate need of more shared effects of short CD conversion. I'm not skipping any card from this biweekly series, I find them all excellent for their value.

[Image: 65] Ziz the Forlorn Beast: I don't have doubts about how good this card is, specially if paired with Self-attack boosters like Mufasa, Basti and Pegasus, so yeah while Valencia goes for multi hit, this one goes for burst. You can this one to burst with Fenrir in Daoloth if you are still waiting to get Pluma. Don't miss this card since we might get a better beast leader soon.

Ultimate

[Image: 64] Garuda the Eagle of Flames: Since Suzuko received her power release on previous patch we have been hoping for the return of Shingen and to get more fire cards, we got Mushussu in the Joint Operation as well. Having either Mushusu or Boyciana active in play will trigger the second portion of Garuda active which is a massive boost. Go for him if you are planning to play Suzuko team, outside of that he is not good for fire mono because you are better getting Nome for the same effect with shorter cooldown and not focused in to only fire beasts.

[Image: 64] Wretched Twins - Bhairava & Nandi: I am not exactly sure how race heart runestones are used, do they increase the recovery effect?, if so then that it is interesting. The second active makes it so Shiva can have an alternative to the removal of some common board hazards that other water teams usually clear with Elizabeth, Tefnut and Chung Xian. Then again just like sonata, this twins can help Cornflower as well.

[Image: 64] Chakra Epiphany - Indra: Poorman Luna anyone?, no I'm just kidding just like Masamune is the fast alternative for Ursula, Indra is about the same for Luna, he converts the column under the adjutant as you can see in this video, so it should be easy to trigger column bonus for some leaders. I guess he can also help everyone that managed to get Vishnu but are missing Luna right now. 

Coliseum

[Image: 64] Wealth Pursuer - Kubera: if Brahma is lacking something right now that is damage reduction, I would really recommend to max this 2 round shield because Gods doesn't have many alternatives to this, also the 3.5x bonus is way too high to be ignored.

Cards affected by rebalance in Version 16.0

This part is extensive so i don't want to include it in this same post, please refer to the second post in this thread for that.

[Image: TEEZsrH.png]
Wall of donors from Discord
Tenmaru, Santa, Lilacse, Clueless, Thanyu, Furu, Dukevoid, and Daddy. 

Thank you guys so much for helping me and encouraging me to continue posting more content for this game and community!.


[Image: tgasfLe.png]

[GOS] Oriceles. UID: 64,287,068
Common adjutants: Atlantis, Nobunaga, Arthur, Ophiuchus, and Turing.
I'm Guild of Saviors president, and we are looking for members.
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#2
Post reserved please wait.

[Image: tgasfLe.png]

[GOS] Oriceles. UID: 64,287,068
Common adjutants: Atlantis, Nobunaga, Arthur, Ophiuchus, and Turing.
I'm Guild of Saviors president, and we are looking for members.
Reply
#3
I think this is all the buffs from 16.0. Basing off changes that the wiki's automated updates added, so could be lacking a little.
Paladin King's leader skill now also gives 1.5x stats to Paladins. His active skill gains "Paladins' CDs -2".
Angeloids and Metatron fusions' convert now selects and converts a row of Enchanted runes, instead of a random column of unenchanted runes.
Lepus generates two Dark runes per non-Dark runetype dissolved, up from one.
Lynx's leader skill now also gives HP 1.2x, and the generated Dark Beast Rune is also Enchanted.
Fudo Myoo now produces Enchanted Dark runes, instead of unenchanted.
Xiahou Dun's leader skill now gives additional 1.8x instead of 1.5x. Her active gains "Self ATK 2.5x".
Agarita and Silver Bullet now generate Enchanted runes and reach a maximum boost of 3x ATK with 8 Hearts exploded, up from 2x.
Seabean's active can also be maintained with Heart runes in addition to Water runes.
Jolly's damage multiplier increased? Text stayed the same but skill ID is different so I'm not sure about this one.
He Xian'gu's active multiplier increased from 1.8x to 2x. Leader skill only requires 3 Eight Xian members instead of 4.
Lan Caihe now produces Enchanted runes instead of unenchanted.
Sun Ce's team skill now gives 35% Water effect, up from 25%. His leader skill also enables 2-dissolve of Hearts.
Sakura's active also turns Fire and Heart into Elf runes.


Main: 59,402,542
Alt: 84,088,062

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Active Skill Catalog (Spreadsheet)
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#4
Again, Lucifer is not a great pick for Vishnu because the L/A are dark so you will never have full team drainage and multiplication. His convert isn't even that great because it interferes with Vishnu's guaranteed skydrop which is his best feature. So comparisons to Maya are kind of bunk, it's a really poor idea to use ML with him and of course MH does this in their test stage anyway to confuse people. That being said, I am loving Vishnu and think he is really strong for Pollux core, though I do wish he had more spin time, even with Luna I'm feeling a little lacking.

I really don't think Lakshmi is viable for Apollo or LDB/HXG. Greeks already have issues with occasional heart drought if they have to keep taking hits and dissolving hearts, expanding that to needing an off-color rune too doesn't make for great consistency with the damage buff. Not to mention having to dissolve a full attack every turn once Apollo is on, it's gonna be too many things to manage at once. LDB and HXG don't generate their own runes so it's also hard to guarantee, but running something like Tsukuyomi or Agni to try to ensure a fuller board dissolve every turn might make it viable, just risky. Maya and Vishnu are the best for her, I think she won't see much play outside of them.

Varuna's quite nice and underrated I think, because he's almost like a separate gameplay style unto himself that you can tack onto other teams like Pontos and Water Bride to help boost them up to Atlantis' level. But then Atlantis can use him too and it allows him to finally use NVR Water bride (but as a pretty neat balancing, you basically have to choose between Varuna/Bride + still having junk hearts or Cass + Wen Zhong classic). Strangely I'm not sure that he's the best pick for Shiva who doesn't generate his own runes and relies on equivalency instead, but having him would help guarantee the -50% damage every turn. But then, water gods isn't exactly a great pool to be picky in.

Brahma was the only leader I didn't proc the new max damage thing with in his test stage (meaning below 100m damage even with all the cards turned on), and his gameplay style is really difficult so I'm gonna stand with "cute but not worth 35 draws." I get that the teams for test stages are bad and all, but I'm comparing them to each other so they all are more or less equally crippled.

Managing the left screen buffs is becoming tactical to the point where newbies need a tutorial on it.
[Image: hDTtKNv.png]
LF: Love and condo buyers. JK.
|Skill Training Guide For Newbies|
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#5
(08-22-2018, 02:43 PM)Fauxy Wrote: Again, Lucifer is not a great pick for Vishnu because the L/A are dark so you will never have full team drainage and multiplication. His convert isn't even that great because it interferes with Vishnu's guaranteed skydrop which is his best feature. So comparisons to Maya are kind of bunk, it's a really poor idea to use ML with him and of course MH does this in their test stage anyway to confuse people. That being said, I am loving Vishnu and think he is really strong for Pollux core, though I do wish he had more spin time, even with Luna I'm feeling a little lacking.

I really don't think Lakshmi is viable for Apollo or LDB/HXG. Greeks already have issues with occasional heart drought if they have to keep taking hits and dissolving hearts, expanding that to needing an off-color rune too doesn't make for great consistency with the damage buff. Not to mention having to dissolve a full attack every turn once Apollo is on, it's gonna be too many things to manage at once. LDB and HXG don't generate their own runes so it's also hard to guarantee, but running something like Tsukuyomi or Agni to try to ensure a fuller board dissolve every turn might make it viable, just risky. Maya and Vishnu are the best for her, I think she won't see much play outside of them.

Varuna's quite nice and underrated I think, because he's almost like a separate gameplay style unto himself that you can tack onto other teams like Pontos and Water Bride to help boost them up to Atlantis' level. But then Atlantis can use him too and it allows him to finally use NVR Water bride (but as a pretty neat balancing, you basically have to choose between Varuna/Bride + still having junk hearts or Cass + Wen Zhong classic). Strangely I'm not sure that he's the best pick for Shiva who doesn't generate his own runes and relies on equivalency instead, but having him would help guarantee the -50% damage every turn. But then, water gods isn't exactly a great pool to be picky in.

Brahma was the only leader I didn't proc the new max damage thing with in his test stage (meaning below 100m damage even with all the cards turned on), and his gameplay style is really difficult so I'm gonna stand with "cute but not worth 35 draws." I get that the teams for test stages are bad and all, but I'm comparing them to each other so they all are more or less equally crippled.
I'll take note on this to update later, thank for your feedback as usual Fauxy, I really appreciate it, for many cards I was just giving ideas on where to try even if not optimal. But yeah, I do agree with you on most stuff. Brahma has a learning curve, you need to know what not do dissolve and how to handle the board when you have more runes of the type you actually want the drop to be, so in that way Brahmaterasu is a bit easier I think?.

(08-22-2018, 02:43 PM)Fauxy Wrote: Managing the left screen buffs is becoming tactical to the point where newbies need a tutorial on it.
Lol we need a total review in modern day mechanics, but is too much of and endeavor to solo for any contributor I think.
[Image: tgasfLe.png]

[GOS] Oriceles. UID: 64,287,068
Common adjutants: Atlantis, Nobunaga, Arthur, Ophiuchus, and Turing.
I'm Guild of Saviors president, and we are looking for members.
Reply
#6
I for one hate ML. Too outdated and high cd. All the sealed lords need a vr imo.

Im going to go out on a limb here and say the real s cards this patch are the common team members. This is the firs patch in a while where i can say the commons will help with a sm. Intial cd0 and basically 5rds of carryover is huge. We have had only a few options like this before v16.

Only downside to the cd0 commons is reset or unintentional push out. You could run two copies if u ever fall victim to these.
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#7
Of the rares I only have Vishnu so I'm probably biased but I think he is the easiest rare to spin. Brahma requires 4 attributes every turn to guarantee fire sky drop, for Shiva you want to make the god runes of not water attribute ideally the other four to have all attack runes. Vishnu instead just requires dissolving fire water earth runes to get the sky drop attack runes (as an aside, ar Alma is easy to activate from sky drop).

For those with skill lvl 10 Lakshmi and Varuni, ar Gallio syncs perfectly leaving a spot open for a short CD utility. Or, you know, add He Xian'gu cause who needs side buff space or utility?

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Available allies: pr Idun, all max pr Verthandi, ame IV Lu Cheng-Syuan, Dumuzi, Atrahasis.
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#8
Yeah after practicing mono dark Vishnu I got a 1.5bn burst, not bad for a team without Luna.

I still want Shiva since I have 2x vr Poseidon waiting for him.
Leaders I'm MISSING
Black: WaterXi, Rakhshasa,  Maya, Atlantis,Pompeii. 
VR: Seth, Daji, DBK, W. CN God. 
PR: Yunyang, Ninurta, dark babilonian. 
Rares: Satan, Guan Yu, Cao Cao, Amaterasu, Sakura, Azathot, XHD, LDB+waifu,SHJ, Mai, iori, Turing.
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#9
(08-23-2018, 03:36 AM)Joaqs Wrote: Of the rares I only have Vishnu so I'm probably biased but I think he is the easiest rare to spin. Brahma requires 4 attributes every turn to guarantee fire sky drop, for Shiva you want to make the god runes of not water attribute ideally the other four to have all attack runes. ...

If you spin all 5 colors or even 3 colors.  Fire will still drop, allbeit not as big as a clump.  If that clump separates into 2 clumps in even a weak spin then even higher damage.  There is no requirement to spin just the four other colors because of the teamskill.  If u spin just the other 4 colors and fire drops then u get 1 less combo so dont do that.  The only time this would not be the case is if u are using amaratsu.

Clearly u have not played brahma.  Brahma does have its issues but those are related to no spin time, no hp, mediocre healing but nothing like u mentioned if the team skill is active.  Its like this...spin as much to clear the board...a big clump of off color drops and does nothing but +1 combo...then the teamskill drops fire based on how many god runes u dissolved with 6 god runes guarenteed each rd.

Brahma has this weird ability to solve quint shield if u have 4 out of the 5 elements on ur board.  The skydrop is almost always the 5th element needed.

All this and there is still no way Brahma is a jackpot.  Where is the hp, spin time or rcr?  I think they should change the skill because u cant clear the board with sm debuffs on u idc how good u r at spinning.
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#10
3 rares of this series are more for advance spinner. Not for beginner.
If theres no updates of any sort. I think this series not gonna last. Feels like ROTK2 patch for me.
Visnu is easier to play compares to others 2.
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