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Oriceles Meta Analysis [15.1] + Tier list 14-3-2018
#1
Heart 
Welcome to the 15.1 thread, this time we can see that racial runes are taking a major focus than before, and that machina is getting their first dedicated leader with the introduction of Li Tiguai. Primal Greek Gods are a major power house that is kinda over the top and open rooms for either overkill or a lot of utility since the leaders provide enough damage and solid rune generation.

The Eight Xian —『The Eight Trigrams

I've seen a lot of doubts regarding this series, in most cases players are not really aware of the benefits from this new cards, and feel that they are not worth the shot, but at least better than Imperial Warlords II. In my opinion they have some unusual tools, and are worth to try together on similar fashion to Ghroth, that being said landing a He Xian'Gu or Lü Dongbin can be really helpful for new players that start from this series. Another thing about getting a bonus on the same series is about how much you can score on arena with this guys because of that. Personally I'm plannig to draw on the day of increased chance and that is it, won't go hard on this because I feel a lot of potential coming on the Crash Fever collab (I'll skip HunterXHunter as well if it comes as a draw machine).

[Image: 40] Shape Shifter - Lan Caihe: Quite unusual converter that currently can only fit on Honda or Su Huan Jen. Having board obstacles like electrified runes and sticky make this guy kinda meh, even at CD 5. I would have preferred to see the same conversion without the moving requirement at CD 6 or 8. I've done some tests for this guy and I got to say he is quite nice for arena, very useful to deal with that skill from "Umbrella of Bloody Tears" that places a debuff of 2 rounds without fire dissolve. Revdarian also states that he is a nice addition for Sun Ce or other teams with extended movement of runes or free form dissolve.

[Image: 40] High Spirited - Cao Guojiu: More fire utility, CD6 1 turn stall and armor reduction is nice. Yet depending on the situation and what you are looking for you might better pick Uriel over him anytime.

[Image: 40] Bionic Immortal - Li Tieguai: Right now he is super relevant because he is the first dedicated Machina leader, so he is probably getting more members in the future patches other than questionable Earth Lionel and Mark II. The damage output can be quite high and since he already is Machina only needs the adjutant to get the team skill working. He also can fit all other average earth members except for Rakshasa.

[Image: 40] Supreme Lotus - He Xian'gu: the new waifu and 2018 version of Daji. Her active can help the to steam roll pretty hard and bring a lot of rune supply to keep the team running. I think that instead of running rainbow with Eight Xian members it's better to use light and dark gods as members, I've seen some players already running Lunafer and Luna+Pollux on her team, preview video also runs Tsukuyomi for lulz.

[Image: 40] Mischievous Wit - Lü Dongbin: the new husbando and 2018 version of Qi Tian Di. As stated, his active works on a similar fashion to Qi Tian Di, but it's actually better on those Pollux teams because the dark god runes have effect of all other runes, this means that Lü Dongbin actually replaces Qi Tian Di for Ophiuchus. As for leader, Lü Dongbin leader skill bonuses are way too high, and paired with He Xian'Gu it's quite similar to the good ol' Loki+Daji combo. This leaders can afford to bench many utility members or steam roll boosters like Anubis and Dancer Yan.

[Image: 40] Emulative Ascetic - Zhongli Quan: I feel that this guy is meant to be combined with Cao Guojiu. His active is quite situational, but I find it interesting because the only fire converters (that I can remember) that can alter the water runes are Nezha and Meng Huo. I would train him and save him for just in case...

[Image: 40] Playful Mind - Han Xiangzi: Do you even overheal bro?. Seriously, this kid is super useful, really high on demand recovery with CD5 and the 5 earth god runes can be really powerful on PR Gaia and Refinement Athena. Earth mono keeps getting short CD tools for survival every patch, just look at Shyplant and Luxun, at this rate we are going to get something like "the next damage received won't lead to your defeat and this effect stays in play until attacked".

[Image: 40] Longevous Child - Zhang Guolao: He is there for the CD reset, on a world where light gods have access to Lucifer, Gods to Pollux, and Tang Sanzang to Luno, why would we need something like Zhang Guolao?, the CD reduction, and yet that is specific to only his series which locks him to be useful only if you have He Xian'Gu or Lü Dongbin. Yet, we have to keep in mind that this kid can go overkill if you are fighting against elf and demons because he will get an on top x2  bonus even if he is alone without other Eight Xian members.





Primal Greek Gods — Power Release

[Image: 50] [Image: 50] [Image: 50] [Image: 50] [Image: 50]

They finally resemble the power they are supposed to have on the lore, from the subpar and non-standard tier they jump straight to standard and best choice with this patch because their built-in multipliers and conversion are over the top surpassing that of Amaterasu and other known leaders. I'll give some insight about team building for them:

[Image: 40] Lord of Waves - Pontos: Sadly he doesn't have access to on demand god rune generation like other leaders, you can get them via his active skill or Divergence Poseidon as member for the full multiplier. I don't want to get too much on details with him because water mono pool of members is quite huge, I'm personally planning to run Giemsa, Troy, Molly and Raphael on him, you can add more gods like Hercules if you want. He can't sustain himself like other leaders unless you bring some other cards to exploit the power.

[Image: 40] Lord of Meteor Flames - Phanes: I'm planning to run the new standard meme of Heimdall+Shakuro, The 2.5x column bonus is over the top and because the board is always flooded with runes some players are running Agnamut and Kyo Kusanagi for overkills. Medea and Dancer Yan are the cherry on top of the cake. Since this leader can provide tons of damage and massive conversion every round I would rather run more utility members like Cao Guojiu, Zhongli Quan and Poppy.

[Image: 40] Lady of Life - Gaia: Obvious Mufasa [Image: 1qRLgdd.png]. I don't see myself adding Rakshasa to Gaia because I won't be getting a lot of combos to land multiple extra attacks, since that is the case I do rather run the old Diarosa+Mufasa combo or Nidhogg+Shyplant. Another member I really see myself running on her is Ithaqua for enchanted Earth God runes every round. My guild members are planning to run Furi, Red Boy and Domon as well.

[Image: 40] Lady of Astro - Aether: Her waifu potential increased in this patch along with her huge multiplier. I really feel Madhead was stingy with giving her more power on  her active skill, but players are now running Ghroth as member to reach billions of damage when combined with her active. Since I don't have Ghroth I'm running the classic member: Zhao Yun - Qiongqi - Circe - Zhuge Liang. Other members I've seen around are Fylgja, Shyplant, Daji and Ali Baba.

[Image: 40] Lord of Umbra - Erebus: Okey the thing about him is that he doesn't feel strong enough unless you have access to some over the top cards like Hel and Anubis, That allowing you to have the 1.5x * 1.5x multiplier running every round and healing on a nice rate. Personally I'm running: Hel - Pollux - Odin - Anubis (fireworks look dope on that order and animation is shorter, just try [Image: up.gif]). I would swap Odin for Khaos for massive skydrop damage but I don't have him, I could run Endor or Daji but meh.

Arena

[Image: 40] The Unbeatable - Master Guan: I'm not exactly sure if this guy actually works on Guan Yu because of the description of her leader skill which states that the skydrop can't be altered by any skill, if this skill is the exception then I can actually see Guan Yu coming back to burst, otherwise I think this guy might find a spot on Zhurong.

[Image: 40] Leaf of Moon - Kaguyahime: She is actually returning, sadly with no 5 pack like Master Guan. I was surprised on how this card made Gan Ning ultimate stage so easy for Hideyoshi. Her active skill has 2 multipliers buit-in, so I think she is a decent card but might be too conditional.

Bi-Weekly

[Image: 40] The Inspired Touch - Chun Xiang: Finally a cheap alternative to frozen runes, and dissolving 10 frozen runes can grant a x 3 team attack. She is way too specific, but I think it's fine to deal with perma frozen and frozen board thanks to her short CD.

Ultimate / Horror / Nightmare [Image: icon_new.gif]

[Image: 40] Lullaby of Love - Ubume: I think madhead designed this card after they spotted players using Athena Asamiya as member for XHD, I also see Ubume as a nice alternative to Circe.

[Image: 40] Mech Smilodon: I think this card is way too strong, it was designed to be used as partner for Metazord, but people is actually using it as member for 'Khaos+Fire Lionel' which turns Lionel in to a total railgun with the extra attacks from leader skill and machina passive.

[Image: tgasfLe.png]

[GOS] Oriceles. UID: 64,287,068
Common adjutants: Atlantis, All Norse Gods, Chessia and Lu Bu.
I'm Guild of Saviors president, and we are looking for members.
Reply
#2
General leader tiers:
[Image: alarm.gif] Disclaimer[Image: alarm.gif]
- This tier list is being sort by series 
- Leaders with same leader skills will be listed once by monster ID.
- The particular order of the cards in the corresponding group displayed doesn't affect their grading. 
- The placement of this cards can change over the duration of the patch by performance or feedback.
- This tier list might be refreshed every 3 days or every Monday.
- Collab monsters have been removed from this tier list for good, because new players won't have access to most of them I've decided to remove them even if they are still viable. I'm considering to add another tier that lists the collab cards that are still viable.

8-03-2018
This updates comes too early to reflecte the feedback I've been getting here on the forums and Discord. On Facebook most people were okey with the placements because we can expect a lot of tailored content for the Xians, and the current videos I've seen have been relying a lot on members that are already strong (memes like Pollux). That being said I'll trim down the value of the results we get from the trans because other than the luck needed to not meet the 45k ambush at round 32 a lot of player skill that is over the average is needed to clear the stage. You can visit the #meta-discussion channel over Discord to see what is my criteria for leader placement. As for the Xians, I'll drop them to Standard and update again on Sunday 11 with whatever are the results of my leaderboard from the upcoming Ultimate stage. 

6-03-2018
If you are following from the previous patch update you may notice a lot of changes, specially with leaders that used to be on Best Choice for quite long time. Greek Gods have become the major focus for mono attribute teams, racial leaders are still at their best. Lu Bu went down because he is not getting any play right now and everything that used to be member for him is now also present on Artemis and Erebus with more bonuses because of "Dark Gods". Gaia massive overhaul and damage output moved Izanagi to standard. Sun Ce is moved to Standard as well because Poseidon doesn't lock you to play a specific race and you also get massive amount of combos.

Super leaders
This tier goes for cards that are mainly jackpot and can cross most stages without difficulty. Be aware that the main difference in this grade is rarity and what is possible within their built-in gameplay.

[Image: 1626i.png] [Image: 1405i.png] [Image: 1439i.png] [Image: 1645i.png] 

Best choice
Not rare as Super leaders, this cards are the real thing on the current meta since usually they have major damage bonuses and usefulness.

[Image: 1135i.png] [Image: 64] [Image: 64] [Image: 64] [Image: 1427i.png] [Image: 1643i.png] [Image: 1639i.png] [Image: 1604i.png] [Image: 1610i.png] 
[Image: 64] [Image: 64] [Image: 64] [Image: 64] [Image: 64] [Image: 1453i.png] [Image: 1541i.png] [Image: 1474i.png] [Image: 1476i.png] 
[Image: 64] 

Standard
This leaders have the damage of the meta but might not be as efficient or don't have as many benefits as tier A/S. 
Cards in this tier are okey to play and might be effective as "best choice" as long as you have the right member to buff the damage output or survivability.

[Image: 1602i.png] [Image: 64] [Image: 64] [Image: 64] [Image: 64] [Image: 64] [Image: 64] [Image: 64] [Image: 6062i.png]
[Image: 1351i.png] [Image: 1352i.png] [Image: 1353i.png] [Image: 1354i.png] [Image: 1355i.png] [Image: 6059i.png] [Image: 1277i.png] [Image: 1245i.png] [Image: 6058i.png]
[Image: 1021i.png] [Image: 1023i.png] [Image: 1025i.png] [Image: 1027i.png] [Image: 1029i.png] [Image: 1406i.png] [Image: 64] [Image: 64] [Image: 1455i.png] 
[Image: 1326i.png] [Image: 1328i.png] [Image: 1330i.png]

Non Standard
Usually convenient to pass some stages but can't ditch the normal damage output, or they simply work better as members.

[Image: 1431i.png] [Image: 1478i.png] [Image: 1545i.png] [Image: 1537i.png] [Image: 1341i.png] [Image: 1342i.png] [Image: 1343i.png] [Image: 1296i.png] [Image: 1279i.png] 
[Image: 1224i.png] [Image: 1226i.png] [Image: 1228i.png] [Image: 1237i.png] [Image: 1247i.png] [Image: 1251i.png] [Image: 6077i.png]

Subpar
Leaders that don't provide as much damage as the current meta requires or are not popular at all, it's hard to spot any clear with this cards on the leaderboards.

[Image: 64] [Image: 64] [Image: 64] [Image: 64] [Image: 64] [Image: 829i.png] [Image: 1188i.png] [Image: 1480i.png] 

[Image: tgasfLe.png]

[GOS] Oriceles. UID: 64,287,068
Common adjutants: Atlantis, All Norse Gods, Chessia and Lu Bu.
I'm Guild of Saviors president, and we are looking for members.
Reply
#3
Here are some arguments for this list:
1) There was such an immediate negative reaction to the rares, at least in my guild and here on the forums. I don't see why you've dumped them straight into best choice rather than following up on the holding tank idea. Based on you saying "I think that instead of running rainbow with Eight Xian members it's better to use light and dark gods as members" I'm guessing you haven't drawn them and don't realize you are forced to have Eight Xian members in the team, basically meaning you can't fit Luna, Pollux, Anubis, and Fire Bride in a team, and if you want that "good ol' Loki+Daji" effect and stick to L/D you're gonna have to either put in a bunch of Zhang Guolaos or draw into dupe rares, which is always a negative.
2) Either Erebus needs to be moved up or Pontos needs to be moved down. Only one of those leaders actually got a buff to where they could have more than double the multiplier every turn.
3) If you're gonna drop Sun Ce, drop XD too. One trans clear doesn't make her viable, it makes her able to use Pollux like any other dark leader, and it makes the player a good spinner for getting through with something nobody uses. Zhurong is the only leader of the three that's managed to easily clear SMs since their introduction.
4) I don't disagree necessarily but why have you dropped the brides down?

Sorry if I sound too severe, it's not intentional, and I think you've done a better job with transparency in regards to placement this time. Thank you for your efforts as always, Oriceles.

[Image: hDTtKNv.png]
LF: Rose and Sun Ce in particular, but no more Azathoths pls.
Reply
#4
For what it's worth, exclusive rare leader teams that have been reported to have cleared transmigration so far (according to Chinese forums anyway). The actual difficulty of clearing will vary wildly between teams, and they may have cleared with very unusual team compositions.

Fallen Halos:
Chessia
Satan
Abraham

Imperial Warlords:
Guan Yu
Lu Bu

Yamato:
Izanagi
Amaterasu* (Diaochan/Amaterasu)
Tsukuyomi* (Anubis/Tsukuyomi, NVR Artemis/Tsukuyomi)

Knights of the Round Table:
Lancelot* (Lancelot/Khaos)
Arthur

Sengoku:
(so far none?)

Pili Puppets:
SHJ
YYS/YSC

Star Burst Pulses:
Ophiuchus
Andromeda* (Andromeda/Khaos)

KOF:
Kyo/Mai
Mai/Iori

Elfish Perennials:
Cornflower
Rose
Sakura

Prologues:
Azathoth
Daoloth
Ghroth

Imperial Warlords 2:
Sun Ce
Xiahou Dun
Zhurong

Eight Xian:
Dongbin/Xian Gu
Dongbin/Anubis
ID: 40 944 239  
Ally: Khaos (Dbl Max).
Frequently Used Leaders (All/Dbl Max): VR Greek (FELD), Ophiuchus, Lu Bu, Mastema, Azazel, Izanagi, Rose, Daoloth, etc.
Reply
#5
Yeah. I have to agree there. XD doesn't deserve "best choice". I have her, used her, and tried to like her but it's not really working out. I'd argue that Sun Ce is better than her and we all know he's riddled with flaws. Izanagi has a similar-esque playstyle and is much more stable, can clear much more variety of stages but apparently you've moved him down. I'm fine with Izanagi being in standard cuz' the age is starting to eat away at him but XD should be moved down as well.

As for the new rares, they do decent damage vs demons and elves but I don't really know if it's top tier. I haven't drawn them yet and I don't know if I will try, but from the looks of it, only the dark rare and earth mech should be up for consideration. He Xian Gu forces you to have 4 members of the series' in the team and their synergy isn't the best. It's like Ghroth all over again, but even more restrictive and less rewarding. This is a leader analysis so it's weird that you'd include her when dual Lu Dongbin seems a better choice. Dupe He Xian won't do jack, and dupe Dongbin is kinda redundant but possibly the best choice alongside Zhang Guolao.
PR: FD Primal, FED OoD, WE Newborn Elves, Aloha, Dipankara etc.
VR: WFEL Greek, WFEL Crimson Grace, ED Norse, Daji
Rares: Atlantis, Maya, Lu Dongbin/He Xian Gu, Azathoth, Ghroth, Daoloth, Rose, Sakura, Ophiuchus, Nobunaga, Hideyoshi, Amaterasu, Tsukuyomi, Izanagi, Chessia, Abraham, Uncle Tuu, Xiahou Dun

ID: 21218485
Reply
#6
Master Guan does work with Guan Yu, he is more like 30 randomly generated runes than anything else, similar yet different to Orochi.

Lan Caihe can be used on Sun Ce, with the extra moving time of Sun Ce and the board simplification of the active you can actually achieve more effective combos. you can add Master Guan too if you feel so inclined.

edit:

You can see that it works testing it in other such teams like Pontos/Erebus/Dipankara/YangJian/Yogsothot.
Leaders I'm MISSING
Black: WaterXi, Rakhshasa,  Maya, Atlantis. 
VR: Freya, CN gods. 
PR: Yunyang, Sumatra, Ninurta, dark babilonian, Seth, Shu. 
Rares: Satan, Guan Yu, Cao Cao, Amaterasu, Sakura, Azathot, XHD, LDB+waifu,SHJ, Mai, iori. 
Reply
#7
(03-08-2018, 04:35 AM)Revdarian Wrote: Master Guan does work with Guan Yu, he is more like 30 randomly generated runes than anything else, similar yet different to Orochi.

Lan Caihe can be used on Sun Ce, with the extra moving time of Sun Ce and the board simplification of the active you can actually achieve more effective combos. you can add Master Guan too if you feel so inclined.

Isn't Lan Caihe a God? You can't put anything but water humans in Sun Ce. 

Not sure Master Guan is useful on anything besides Guan Yu and Sun Ce. Without freeform dissolve, I don't think you'd get enough combos to be worth it.
ID: 40 944 239  
Ally: Khaos (Dbl Max).
Frequently Used Leaders (All/Dbl Max): VR Greek (FELD), Ophiuchus, Lu Bu, Mastema, Azazel, Izanagi, Rose, Daoloth, etc.
Reply
#8
Lan Caihe is a human Smile
Leaders I'm MISSING
Black: WaterXi, Rakhshasa,  Maya, Atlantis. 
VR: Freya, CN gods. 
PR: Yunyang, Sumatra, Ninurta, dark babilonian, Seth, Shu. 
Rares: Satan, Guan Yu, Cao Cao, Amaterasu, Sakura, Azathot, XHD, LDB+waifu,SHJ, Mai, iori. 
Reply
#9
IDK but I feel TSZ is in need of vr or something I got him on this last ancient coin and he really is not that great in the times we have now. I wouldn't put him in the same tier as the other 3 and i'd rank Daoloth up also.
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#10
(03-07-2018, 02:53 PM)Fauxy Wrote: Sorry if I sound too severe, it's not intentional, and I think you've done a better job with transparency in regards to placement this time. Thank you for your efforts as always, Oriceles.

It's okey, it's not the first time I add a lot of values to just released content even when I promise to not do it  Shy . I'got a lot of your feedback in consideration for this update and I'm planning to do another follow up on sunday.

(03-09-2018, 07:48 AM)draconian Wrote: IDK but I feel TSZ is in need of vr or something I got him on this last ancient coin and he really is not that great in the times we have now. I wouldn't put him in the same tier as the other 3 and i'd rank Daoloth up also.

Where are you using him?, what team members are you using?. I know that TSZ can't compete with Atlantis perks or Azathot tankiness, yet he is way too stable and has access to some reliable tools to do the job, he has also been able to clear some hard content we have got in the past, and it's not like we have got any nightmare recently where I can actually say he sucks or not. I also got him and I can say he feels quite nice, but I've been unable to test it at full because I'm still in need to max some other common members like Colin, "Imanotsurugi and Usumidori", and Lisa Amelioration 4. I'm also planning to max Sha Seng and Zhu Bajie in near future.
[Image: tgasfLe.png]

[GOS] Oriceles. UID: 64,287,068
Common adjutants: Atlantis, All Norse Gods, Chessia and Lu Bu.
I'm Guild of Saviors president, and we are looking for members.
Reply


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