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Oriceles Meta Analysis [14.3] + Leader Tier list 15-01-2018
(01-13-2018, 12:36 AM)killerwombat Wrote:
(01-13-2018, 12:25 AM)put1572 Wrote:
(01-12-2018, 11:36 PM)Oriceles Wrote:
(01-12-2018, 11:15 PM)attanond Wrote: So about Freyja, do you think having Freyja, Odin, Valkyrie, Icathaqua can bring her to A tier?

Probably, Icathaqua can bring a lot of damage to that team but we are having 1 free slot left. Same goes for Loki+Hel but the effect is even stronger because of the heart runes effect on dark runes. I'm still pending to max the level of my Icathaqua to make some tests + I have to see videos and stages being cleared with that setup.

I don't know what people see in Ithaqua but I'm just not feeling it. Lionel, Diaochan, Cygnus, Leona; all these cards I bought in a heartbeat, but with this one I don't know. Is the extra damage from race runes really that significant (honest question)? Is Freyja the only one that can tap into its full potential? All these questions still linger in my mind...

Race runes are liked enhanced enchanted runes, but apply to race rather than attribute.  Whereas dissolving a group of 3 enchanted runes is +45%, a group of 3 race runes is +90%, compared to a set of unenchanted.  +90% is also incidently the boost from enchanted runes in a Norse team.  A Norse team with Ithaqua includes at least 4 gods, so Ithaqua provides both boosts to most/all of the team.
Hmm yeah I know Norse gets extra benefit from enchanted runes which leads me to believe that Freyja is the only one that can use this card to its fullest, which in turn made me doubt the overall usefulness of the card. 

But thank you for clarifying on the race runes, I didn't know how much the increase was initially. I played with Lynx which drops beast runes several times but I never really bothered to compare the damage with and w/o dissolving race runes so the math is much appreciated.

Main Ally: Azathoth
PR: FED OoD, WE Newborn Elves, WE Spiritual Civilization, WFE Egyptians, Aloha, Dipankara
VR: WFEL Crimson Grace, ED Norse, Daji
EX. Seal: Atlantis, Maya, Azathoth, Ghroth, Rose, Sakura, Ophiuchus, Hideyoshi, Amaterasu, Izanagi, Chessia, Abraham, Uncle Tuu

ID: 21218485
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(01-13-2018, 12:36 AM)killerwombat Wrote:
(01-13-2018, 12:25 AM)put1572 Wrote: I don't know what people see in Ithaqua but I'm just not feeling it. Lionel, Diaochan, Cygnus, Leona; all these cards I bought in a heartbeat, but with this one I don't know. Is the extra damage from race runes really that significant (honest question)? Is Freyja the only one that can tap into its full potential? All these questions still linger in my mind...

Race runes are liked enhanced enchanted runes, but apply to race rather than attribute.  Whereas dissolving a group of 3 enchanted runes is +45%, a group of 3 race runes is +90%, compared to a set of unenchanted.  +90% is also incidently the boost from enchanted runes in a Norse team.  A Norse team with Ithaqua includes at least 4 gods, so Ithaqua provides both boosts to most/all of the team.

Only lasting 3 turns every 7 CD means he's no replacement for Anubis though... not really sure he'd bring Freyja to Loki's level. If Athena ever VRs though, that might be something interesting.

UID: 86478773
Adjutants: Maya and Rose.

On Request:
All Max: Ophiuchus, Erebus, Chessia, Amaterasu, Aloha, Wukong, Shuta, Yidhra, Magrence, Jackie, Jack, Barbara, Azathoth.
Nonmax: Aether, Khaos, Mai.

LF: A good time. Wink
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Then put two earth machines for an extra 20% per rune so 60% for three runes if I read the passive correctly so a set of enchanted earth good runes with 2 machines members should be 90%+90%+60% so 240% for the gods and 90%+60% for the two machines.
But that should be multiplied by the passive self attack up to 2x which would be 150%*2 so 300% and then add the chaser attacks of 25% so that's an extra attack of 75% the machine attack.
BUT then it can be two attacks and I got derailed plus it it's speculation without knowing the full mechanics and a scenario where 50+ earth runes (a little less including hearts) have been dissolvedso more towards the end of the stage, anyways it looks like machines can be fun.

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ID: 79230079

Available allies: pr Idun, all max pr Verthandi, ame IV Lu Cheng-Syuan, Dumuzi, Atrahasis.
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(01-12-2018, 09:06 PM)Fauxy Wrote: I mean, doesn't how little you see Honda speak for itself? I think he's, if not the worst, among the worst of all rares, which is a shame cuz his art is great. Even Abraham sees more play, even Merlin, who is literally only good for one team (though let's be honest Bedivere is the real 3rd rare from KotR). Meanwhile, people were using Rose to clear the final boss of Age of Black Iron, but you say you haven't seen enough of her. TSZ has one of the most rigid team/race/member restrictions in the game, but he's top over everyone and this is just widely accepted fact. I think Akanto is advocating for pushing Aether down instead of up though.

For your future list there needs to be more of a uniform and transparent standard of what makes a team qualify for a tier. Or. We can survey monkey it and vote, and just have a general consensus tier list, which people will still complain about, because that's normal, but at least everyone can feel like they had a say.

pretty much what I wanted to say. xD Thx for rewriting it understandable.
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 69531602                                      Saviors League (Lv17) looking for members
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Are the cards within each tier arranged into any specific order? Perhaps each tier can be further split into two groups, e.g "upper" and "lower" tier C, etc. Cause as it is now, I think that some cards within the same tier don't really belong together, e.g Abraham and Mahonin (who is a non-rare from the same seal, with attribute and race restrictions, and a leader skill that requires all light runes to be dissolved to get the full mulitplier (x12.25 vs x27.6).
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(01-15-2018, 04:07 PM)rocelle_t Wrote: Are the cards within each tier arranged into any specific order? Perhaps each tier can be further split into two groups, e.g "upper" and "lower" tier C, etc. Cause as it is now, I think that some cards within the same tier don't really belong together, e.g Abraham and Mahonin (who is a non-rare from the same seal, with attribute and race restrictions, and a leader skill that requires all light runes to be dissolved to get the full mulitplier (x12.25 vs x27.6).

^This. Upper and lower tiers sound like a great idea. As it stands right now, forget people comparing cards among different tiers, they'll do so with cards in the same tier as well. Maybe not arrange each card in a specific order because that's going to be even more opinionated than it is right now, but a division based on a general consensus seems nice. 
Main Ally: Azathoth
PR: FED OoD, WE Newborn Elves, WE Spiritual Civilization, WFE Egyptians, Aloha, Dipankara
VR: WFEL Crimson Grace, ED Norse, Daji
EX. Seal: Atlantis, Maya, Azathoth, Ghroth, Rose, Sakura, Ophiuchus, Hideyoshi, Amaterasu, Izanagi, Chessia, Abraham, Uncle Tuu

ID: 21218485
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(01-15-2018, 04:07 PM)rocelle_t Wrote: Are the cards within each tier arranged into any specific order? Perhaps each tier can be further split into two groups, e.g "upper" and "lower" tier C, etc. Cause as it is now, I think that some cards within the same tier don't really belong together, e.g Abraham and Mahonin (who is a non-rare from the same seal, with attribute and race restrictions, and a leader skill that requires all light runes to be dissolved to get the full mulitplier (x12.25 vs x27.6).

I'm not really into further splitting the tiers. That would just lead to a second level of discussion. If many people already disagree with the placing of each card in the existing tiers, adding subdivisions within them would only aggravate that, since for most pairwise comparisons within a tier, subjectivity would run amok. I imagine lots of comments in the line of "X is better than Y, not worse, because it works better (for me) in stage Z"...

Additionally, I think the time employed in subdividing the tiers would be better put to use in creating discussion threads for the teams those cards produce. This way, when someone would draw a new nice card, they could jump into the thread and start teambuilding (instead of making a thread in the Team Building discussion, which let's be honest, most of us don't take the time to read through).
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Nah that would be too much, and would require to add a numeric rating to make it fair, I do rather keep it simple with "super" "best choice" "standard" "situational" and "subpar".
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[GOS] Oriceles. UID: 64,287,068
Common adjutants: Atlantis, All Norse Gods, Chessia and Lu Bu.
I'm Guild of Saviors president, and we are looking for members.
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Any opinion on the new Slime King for Diablo team?
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I agree that the list needs to be more transparent but not necessarily more stratified, it can get really confusing, and new cards are introduced too quickly at the current pace to keep it updated. A few months ago we discussed having a separate subforum for individual team guide threads ala the TSZ guide, with a masterthread functioning as a sort of tier list. At the time, I hadn't realized that all the mods in this forum are inactive. I'd still like to see something like that come to fruition but I don't know how it's possible without migrating to some other platform like reddit. Maybe a google docs?

(01-15-2018, 09:20 PM)attanond Wrote: Any opinion on the new Slime King for Diablo team?

To what end? He can be good for clearing some stages with complicated shields, but he's not so valuable as to have him as a standard member. That being said, since all the stages are at 5 stamina now, it's worth it to farm him because it's so easy and costs nothing and the EXP/feeder drops aren't bad.
UID: 86478773
Adjutants: Maya and Rose.

On Request:
All Max: Ophiuchus, Erebus, Chessia, Amaterasu, Aloha, Wukong, Shuta, Yidhra, Magrence, Jackie, Jack, Barbara, Azathoth.
Nonmax: Aether, Khaos, Mai.

LF: A good time. Wink
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