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Oriceles Meta Analysis «16.2», Tier List 5-12-2018
#11
Before i get into it, this thread is really well done and needed. Since cards in this game cost money, this is huge in saving cash.

That being said, the meta discussion has jumped the shark when you start talking about khaos as a leader. What does he hit? Maybe 300k per card if he is leader? Thats basically zero dmg now.

Its not too far off when comparing atlantis to aqua. I am hitting 3 mill per card with no boosters on the 1st spin. I play atlantis and hit 300 to 400k per card without wz cass. I have low hp and basically have only 2 slots to choose what else to bring. These cards are on 2 different planets.

Moving on to more recent cards like the cat thieves, i really want to place them in S status but zero and mellow rely on more combos to bring amazing dmg. This is not needed for daoloth where 1 year later i am still mostly able to hit 1 mill on the first round then abuse fenrir for later rds. I kinda keep that 1 mill per card as a measure of dmg i like. It shouldnt be variable based on how much junk is on the board.

That being said these cards are not junk but have varying flexability depending if u need the dmg or the utility. But if u cant create the dmg, have low hp and no universal rune, then you are probably in trouble in todays meta.

I am enjoying cat thieves and it appears they arent done buffing beasts just yet.

I feel bad for ppl that missed prologues, HxH, YYH, and aqua. I might throw Pompeii in there too. Not much you have missed in rotk, eight xian, crash fever and hindu gods with hindu probably being the best of that bunch. Mesopotamia is a good card but just an average black card. Mesopotamia clashes with so many other staple cards and has no hp. I would rather have an earth card with hp since we have daoloth light, pompeii fire, yusuke water, hiei dark.

If u have a mature FL then u can scroll through that and see if u are right.

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#12
(11-27-2018, 12:05 AM)SRBTS12345 Wrote: Darkness - A grind leader is not a good grind leader if the recovery cannot keep up with insane HP without good enough skydrops even with that damage reduction (imo only, I'm not sure about what you actually think of her). Haza can do about the same but he is better at keeping his HP to an acceptable level (Comparable HP numerical values). To use her efficiently means that the player must do careful planning in order to not get screwed by something that forces her multiplier to drop such that it takes at least 1 to 2 hours to get past that one enemy (do I even need to cite one example? there are many). This is the annoying aspect about Darkness, while Haza has no such weakness.. Although I can agree that Darkness can do better damage than Haza overall and in this case, she can stay at Tier A or borderline to A- (still mainly A)

Rather than being a grindy leader, I see her more as a stall-and-burst leader, so for her recovery to not be able to keep up with her high HP is not that big an issue for me. She'd just need to be able to stall ~6-10 rounds until the actives are up.

Having only recently started using Darkness, I'm curious to know what are the examples where her multiplier drops as such? Off the top of my head, I can only think of sleepy runes. 

ID: 39,040,287
Main ally: Terry

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#13
(11-27-2018, 12:05 AM)SRBTS12345 Wrote: Khaos - IMO, he really does not have a chance as dual-leaders due to painfully low damage but good at recovery and HP. If he is dealing damage this low, at the very least, he should at least have built-in damage reduction right? I'm talking about 250k to 400k per card at best from a regular spin of 6 combos including skydrop. Lancelot as a demon, gets x1.69 boost from dual-leaders, so this adds up to self-attack x6.76 (x4 from his active skill and another x1.69 from dual-leaders additional boost). With the new demon dragonware, dissolving heart runes grant another x1.1 self attack and dissolving 20+ runes grant him additional x1.5 attack (which is quite hard to achieve without additional spin time). So, altogether, he alone has self attack x11.154 at max which makes him a core member for damage in dual-Khaos. As for FireLionel-Khaos with Smildon, sure the damage is high and the HP is generally decent but the recovery is painfully low and this alone will not sustain the team in the meta due to the emphasis of high continuous recovery. Yvette-Khaos is a grind approach like Kurama but in all honesty, Kurama can do much better overall than Yvette-Khaos despite having different members because Kurama's kit is more balanced overall. While Yvette-Khaos damage is too low to be of any good use to even regular mobs nowadays that require to be killed fast or risk a Game Over. In short, he is at best at A- tier (imo), borderline to B+ tier due to imbalanced overall stats

Why would you take Lancelot for damage when Yog-Sothoth offers a much more useful convert and over twice the firepower and stats (3270*1.3*1.3*1.3*5=35920, versus Lancelot's 2283*1.3*1.3*4=15433)?

My personal Khaos staples are Yog-Sothoth and Aloha, which gives you multiple ways of dealing with bad boards and producing full damage. If I had a Mellow, you can bet she'd be going in. You already start off with two built-in time tunnel, boundary breaking AND enchanted generation actives. A single Diablo is enough to make the team an overheal contender, a single Nidhogg puts you at 18k HP already, a single Yog-Sothoth gives you solo 2 million damage unboosted regular spins. Heck, nothing even in the A+ tier has anything like Khaos' flexibility and raw stats combined, let alone B+.

(11-27-2018, 12:05 AM)SRBTS12345 Wrote: Darkness - A grind leader is not a good grind leader if the recovery cannot keep up with insane HP without good enough skydrops even with that damage reduction (imo only, I'm not sure about what you actually think of her). Haza can do about the same but he is better at keeping his HP to an acceptable level (Comparable HP numerical values). To use her efficiently means that the player must do careful planning in order to not get screwed by something that forces her multiplier to drop such that it takes at least 1 to 2 hours to get past that one enemy (do I even need to cite one example? there are many).This is the annoying aspect about Darkness, while Haza has no such weakness. Although I can agree that Darkness can do better damage than Haza overall and in this case, she can stay at Tier A or borderline to A- (still mainly A)

Darkness provides 8 Hearts at CD 8, and you can drop in a PKoL or more for instant full heals and extra spin time. I'd certainly like you to cite several examples of enemies that kill her multiplier, given that enemies nowadays are more likely to hit you multiple times a turn than they are to not hit you once, and the one thing Darkness excels at is taking hits. Darkness also has the benefit of every single Human utility and boost out there (remember Gon? Illumi + PKoD? Zhang Jue?), while Haza's utility is only raised to average levels by this patch focused almost entirely on Beasts.

(11-27-2018, 05:02 PM)johnnyTOS Wrote: Rather than being a grindy leader, I see her more as a stall-and-burst leader, so for her recovery to not be able to keep up with her high HP is not that big an issue for me. She'd just need to be able to stall ~6-10 rounds until the actives are up.

Having only recently started using Darkness, I'm curious to know what are the examples where her multiplier drops as such? Off the top of my head, I can only think of sleepy runes. 

There's honestly far more ways to raise your multiplier from nothing to full in a single turn than there are ways to lose it. In my runs throughout 10-3 Darkness has become a staple, and the only times she's failed are when the attribute-only damage restrictions ask for more member slots than I can fit.

Main: 59,402,542
Alt: 84,088,062

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#14
(11-27-2018, 05:58 PM)KaerfNomekop Wrote: Why would you take Lancelot for damage when Yog-Sothoth offers a much more useful convert and over twice the firepower and stats (3270*1.3*1.3*1.3*5=35920, versus Lancelot's 2283*1.3*1.3*4=15433)?

Because after dying 3 times on floor 9 of the pryramid, it annoying that yog always gets offed or cannot be activated after u are hit 51% of ur hp.  Consisdering this is pretty much the case for anything but Pompeii or hiei then ur talking about very few teams.

It is much easier to keep the multiplier with heph-kyo and maybe even ninurta-kyo and phanes-kyo due to hard hitting mobs.

Same kinda holds for lancelot.  He is cd5 and sometimes u dont want water.  Yog is cd10.  Sure the skill is good but not cd10 good.
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#15
(12-01-2018, 11:06 AM)jtsmith Wrote:
(11-27-2018, 05:58 PM)KaerfNomekop Wrote: Why would you take Lancelot for damage when Yog-Sothoth offers a much more useful convert and over twice the firepower and stats (3270*1.3*1.3*1.3*5=35920, versus Lancelot's 2283*1.3*1.3*4=15433)?

Because after dying 3 times on floor 9 of the pryramid, it annoying that yog always gets offed or cannot be activated after u are hit 51% of ur hp.  Consisdering this is pretty much the case for anything but Pompeii or hiei then ur talking about very few teams.

It is much easier to keep the multiplier with heph-kyo and maybe even ninurta-kyo and phanes-kyo due to hard hitting mobs.

Same kinda holds for lancelot.  He is cd5 and sometimes u dont want water.  Yog is cd10.  Sure the skill is good but not cd10 good.

Wrong, Yog Sothoth Pledge of Life skill is CD6, not 10 as Mastery of Elements - EX.
[Image: tgasfLe.png]

[GOS] Oriceles. UID: 64,287,068
Common adjutants: Atlantis, Nobunaga, Arthur, Ophiuchus, and Turing.
I'm Guild of Saviors president, and we are looking for members.
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#16
(12-02-2018, 11:01 PM)Oriceles Wrote:
(12-01-2018, 11:06 AM)jtsmith Wrote:
(11-27-2018, 05:58 PM)KaerfNomekop Wrote: Why would you take Lancelot for damage when Yog-Sothoth offers a much more useful convert and over twice the firepower and stats (3270*1.3*1.3*1.3*5=35920, versus Lancelot's 2283*1.3*1.3*4=15433)?

Because after dying 3 times on floor 9 of the pryramid, it annoying that yog always gets offed or cannot be activated after u are hit 51% of ur hp.  Consisdering this is pretty much the case for anything but Pompeii or hiei then ur talking about very few teams.

It is much easier to keep the multiplier with heph-kyo and maybe even ninurta-kyo and phanes-kyo due to hard hitting mobs.

Same kinda holds for lancelot.  He is cd5 and sometimes u dont want water.  Yog is cd10.  Sure the skill is good but not cd10 good.

Wrong, Yog Sothoth Pledge of Life skill is CD6, not 10 as Mastery of Elements - EX.
One thing i have noticed is, with the release of many new leaders, yog's all attributes skill may be made irrelevant if the leader skill already possesses this function or some form of it.  This isnt a problem for cat thieves because you must have all beast but for a leader like hiei, fire is already the same as dark.

So moving back to the original point, yog always has a problem with pledge turning off with say a %70 attk or any hard hitting mob that can hit above half of hiei's max hp.  As getting harder seems to be the norm, this is a bad thing for yog.

So the advantage of lancelot is that you dont have to worry about this and the cd is lower for both skills.  The trade off is some other stats and a lot of attk.  one other issue with lancelot is that some enemy skills prevent an attk which will off him even though you dissolved the necessary runes.

Edit: i had a chance to look at it closer now.  It is really the same with kyo.  Basically these cards have better control than yog to get offed so that is why we use them.  

I say this as a khaos and yog user both as leaders and members.  I really hope they come back someday especially khaos.  I think they should just vr all the sealed lords in one go.  I always wanted to play them all as a team.
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