Support TOS Forum by making a donation or subscribing as a VIP member today!

Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Oriceles Meta Analysis «16.2», Tier List 18-12-2018 + Christmas Present
#1
Information 
[Image: 2afhvloae.jpg]

Introduction
My only personal bias is against the art, not the skills. But leaving that aside, the Cathieves series pack some amazing skills that I have to recognize, and I wish really that Madhead decided to pick another type of artwork and theme for them.

Some questions that I've got regarding this series:
  • Q: Is this limited time seal meta defining?
  • A: Yes, if you check the tier list you will see that until today the only good leaders for Beast race are Haza and Suzuko both which have 0.6% draw rate in the Carver or Engrave. Suzuko is behind in member options and despite Madhead have tried to push some options for her, she is still not popular or viable at all, so somehow she is getting the same problems as Lynx did on release. In Haza case he is solid enough, can use beasts of any attribute but rewards Earth beasts even more, this being said a beast expansion was needed for months, and I really wished them to have a revamp since 2017 actually, this seals offers all that but personally I am not pleased with the current theme, that is all.
    TL;DR: If you don't have Haza or Suzuko you are better building these guys. You are getting fucked if you don't get beast leaders in this patch.
  • Q: What about Power Creep?
  • A: This series is focused in a single race, but they are not exactly something like Gon that was all about humans and managed to push the entire tier list down because of him, Beast race was almost subpar this entire year, so having these guys happening is revamping them but not killing everything introduced in 2018.
  • Q: Is Zero a good Jackpot?
  • A: I think it is, his mechanics have shared effect of attribute Runestones so he won't feel so bad as He Xian'Gu in that sense. I want to play Ghostie + Zero but Madhead didn't make it available in the test teams of "Absolute Obedience", instead they introduced a Ghostie + Haza setup.
  • Q: Should I whale for this seal?
  • A: Not much point on having dupes of this cards, especially with their long cooldown, also you can't use them outside of beast teams because their active skills have portions locked with a race condition. If you can whale just aim to get to get the full set.
Tier List

As you may know already the tier list is no longer part of this series of threads but rather it is available as a different resource in Google Sheets, it will be updated every week with more comments about how to use every leader and listing the changes in the placements. If you want to support this job and many other threads I create feel free to donate to me via my Ko-Fi page, Paypal or Bitcoin wallet.


Useful Links
# Patch notes: “Tower of Saviors” 16.2 Version Updates on “Strongest Feline Gang EVER”
# Discord Server Invitation: https://discord.gg/qqNEz2W
# Newbies and Returning Players guide [16.1 update]
# Why do Furries Exist? - A Fur-real look at the Fandom

『Calling of Cathieves』 -『 The Master Cathieves』

As a whole this set is focused on choosing the combination of leader and adjutant to get the best for the stage situation, so you don't play dual leader in this set. The members offer utility tools that when played right reward you with additional damage, there is a benefit on building a team full of them if you are playing Ghostie, but I would recommend not 100% relying on them, so go and train your traditional druids and companions because other beast series will be relevant as well. 

This series is also rainbow so you don't really have to worry about not having some old specific card like how Shingen absence is hindering Suzuko gameplay even with Garuda release. I hope you also took the time to farm Valencia and Ziz back when they were available during Survivor of Oroz biweekly because now is their time to shine with this leaders.

[Image: alarm.gif] Please be aware that outside of the recommendations that I already mentioned I won't provide sample teams this early, I need to check more content before I mention more stuff.

[Image: 60] Irresistible Cuteness - Plumpy: Short CD full HP recovery can help you tank damage really well, also as good timing you can use her to burst down bosses with the second portion of her active skill. You might want to play her in scenarios where recovery is locked or you are receiving more damage than what you can actually heal. The main portion of her active skill is not locked, which means this is another good addition for your water mono setups, this should help Aqua and other leaders to deal with poison and board hazards that deal damage like burning trail, but I do need to playtest to see if the recovery happens at the end of the round or at the start.

[Image: 60] Tactful Illusionist - Copperfield: This should be the main nuke guy for this series, good thing that he is fire so we can use him in Suzuko where that conversion will also be appreciated. His damage is lower than using Mufasa or Basti, but if you get the reset you can get him in 5 rounds again. As usual, you can use him along with Odous, Pluma, or even better, with Ziz.

[Image: 60] Untraceable Moves - Ghostie: Playing her reminds me of my days playing Bloodthirsty Alternation, also Mothman was a thing back then. As a leader she provides amazing recovery and damage, I am yet to see how good she is with Zero as adjutant or leader, but her active along with Mellow leader condition can deal really high damage. Then again, her active is an alternative version of Aqua God Blow. Since you recover 5% of health per beast runestone dissolved you might be able to play Yungyang as a member.

[Image: 60] Carefree Mindset - Zero: This is the jackpot card of this series so let me summarize it for him:
  • Active skill contains 10 second time tunnel, conditional damage boost, and tumbler effect.
  • Leader skill like I mentioned earlier works like a mix of Kurama with He Xian'Gu, Runestones WILL NOT provide the effect of heart Runestones, but if you try him Haza or Ghostie you should be able to recover easily.
  • Team skill provides time extension, extra stats, and racial trail like Hindu Gods so you should try to spin initially the runestones of the monsters with more damage (for example if your main damage will come from Copperfield you might want to start spinning fire runestones first if those are not fire beast runestones.
He was a card we really needed, beasts didn't have a time tunnel until or tumbler until now, just time extension, but I do believe that Madhead overdid it with the shared effect of runestones, but that is good because allows the possibilities of not having to worry about running dry on runestones of your main damage dealer or lacking damage because you decided to slot utilities that belong to members from other attributes.

[Image: 60] Cat of Charisma - Mellow: The active skill is kinda frustrating, this should be a tool that allows your entire team to stall while you arrange the board, but can only be used at the start of the wave because of the condition. The undercover effect should work like Haza evade but you can extend the use of it. As a leader she provides insane damage with Ghostie active skill, but not so much with Zero, now, if you have Ghostie member and Zero+Mellow as leader and adjutant you should be getting the most of the multiplier.

[Image: 60] Astute Lockpicker - Wimpy: okay so this guy is a really needed unlock, for 2 races, means that outside of the featured beast teams you are meant to use him in the teams of the Mech Mythological beasts or Haza. This is the only card I feel we should not ignore from this series.

[Image: 60] Bon Appétit - Choux: She is simple enough and way better alternative to Ra since you get reduced cooldown and actually remove the entire board. This being said, she is your main choice to get rid of board hazards like electrified, frozen, or weathered just like Kazuma is for the Konosuba set in 16.1.

[Image: 60] Meticulous Cartographer - Tim: This guy skill should help you overcome skills like the one from Perillo first health bar pretty easily, you can expect shields that require a specific amount of Runestones to be dissolved and counter with conversion and this skill. other than that I want to see how it goes when paired with Ghostie active skill.

As you can see the entire set is more oriented in to burst and bits of utility, if you want damage booster that carries over every round you should consider bringing Boyciana, Dodo or Mothman. Real burst options come from already existing beasts.

[Image: 20.jpg]

Imperiality of Egypt 

[Image: 50][Image: 50?cb=20181112092238][Image: 50?cb=20181112092238][Image: 50?cb=20181112092238][Image: 50]

[Image: alarm.gif] Update: I am intrigued that Narmer is being introduced as a card from event rather than being part of a diamond seal series, this might be changed later, but who knows?. Anyway I think we will receive them slowly in different challenges. I hate this new format that MadHead is using of releasing new series in different ways, quite shitty.

[Image: 50] Narmer the Pharaoh: fixed conversion with conditional full recovery is not bad, but personally I don't see much use for it in current standards, dark mono is bloated with converters of all types so this guy doesn't make big difference. This being said, don't bother getting more than one copy.

[Image: 50] Soaring Sacredness - Horus: Not outstanding and not that impressive, but she is a decent fast converter since we are talking of 15 runestones in mono teams and random in rainbow, so really the best way to use her would be in Inanna or Shiva.
 [Image: 103.jpg]

New “Awakening Recall” for “Hyakki Yagyō – Curse”

This is a series that really gets overlooked because they are very situational members and 3 of them doesn't have feeders. Since Yuyu Hakusho collaboration happened we have seen that demons have got a bit more of improvement with a short cooldown and overpowered stats when building teams that consist of just their race. Overall I feel that the Youkais are now back to 2018 in terms of what they should be offering, but this doesn't make them as relevant as previous Awakening Recall series. I am assuming that somewhere in 2019 we will receive another Limited Time Seal that should be offering about the same tools as Yuyu Hakusho did, or include more synergy with this AR somehow.

[Image: 60] Princess of Blizzard - Yuki-onna: considering the fact that she can get a base attack of 4.111 with Cassandra active in play, it seems Madhead is not willing to give Atlantis his own Jiang Ziya/Pollux. I see more potential of using her in other water teams that can take benefit of that heart = water every 5 turns, Aqua, Yusuke or Su Huan Jen could be good leaders for her.

[Image: 60] Chief of Infernal Blaze - Shuten-dōji: Sadly fire demon archetype is not a thing (even with recent buff to Jackie with PR Robert happening), and fire alone does have better options for member, accelerating the cooldown by killing enemies doesn't seem too useful unless the stage has many mobs, if you clear a wave of 3 enemies you get his cooldown ready again. Be aware that at All Max his cooldown is 10, so same applies to AR version.

[Image: 60] Howl of Raging Storm - Ootengu: probably an exception to the rest of the series, you can hardly ever go wrong picking Ootengu as a member because he offers delay which is something of high value in current meta (Ranto stage or every time I see something that YouTubers clear with Khaos craft...), I will highly recommend getting this AR, the only sad part is that if you really want to use him as an additional DPS tool you will need to use a continuous effect, be it Mesopotamia/Rakshasa/Circe/Lu Shun/Yashiro/Athena/Shyplant/Ubume you probably have at least one of those options.

[Image: 60] Soul-Devouring Geisha - Kejourou: there is a lot of improvement here because yay, free race runestones every turn, but I don't see much to celebrate because I can't think of a team other than Beelzebub or Jack that can benefit from her. I am more hyped of thinking that when Norvi gets her AR she will get on demand Dark God Runestones.

[Image: 60] Five Elements of Onmyō - Tuchigumo: somehow I feel he is redundant, like okay finally can be useful because you get his active skill ready from the very first turn but he just brings more damage... for demons... I think that demons are more in need of getting their own version of utility skills rather than getting on top overkill effects.

Arena

[Image: 60] Cullinan the Unscrupulous Tycoon: I am not amused. In theory, this guy is like the Camera of Precious Flashes but with lower cooldown and for the dark attribute instead. Personally, I will skip him and rather use my points in something else.

Biweekly

I like how this WFE beast trio is turning out, having short cooldown with very strong tools for board manipulation and they are very decent for new players that are starting with the Cathieves, if you are considering to stay playing beasts as main after this patch I highly recommend to farm them.

[Image: 60] Intel Scout - Biggie: This card is obviously waiting for other 2 beasts of its own series, CD5 for 3 column dissolve and 2.2 boost is quite decent, I would recommend to farm him if you want to focus on boosting your beasts right now.

[Image: 60] Pure Etaholic - Twinkle: So far I see him as a good budget choice, just like Biggie. 3 type runestone enchant + race conversion is very strong at just CD5, I totally recommend to train this guy if you don't have proper members for your WFE teams or beast teams.

[Image: 64] Versatile Stratagem - Tristan: Quite decent self booster, I would recommend getting 2 copies so you can get the effect permanently running on a similar fashion to what people did with the Destroyer from Konosuba. I don't feel he is convenient as the previous two, but still nice.

Ultimate / Nightmare / Terror

[Image: 60] Secret Panacea - Merbromin: This trap is more powerful than you think, in theory, he can compete with Plumpy in terms of role, but I see Merbromin taking place in the teams of Suzuko instead of the Cathieves teams because those don't suffer from recovery at all (but options against poison and recovery zero never hurt). Don't ignore the team skill which turns him into a free version of AR Jiang Ziya.

[Image: 60] Perillos the Brazen Bull: I know this card was part of 16.1 but makes more sense in this thread than in the previous, as you can see he is just another member for Suzuko, if you take in consideration that his effect lasts for 2 rounds then he is more of a CD3, and thanks to Suzuko leader skill you get him ready from the very first turn in battle, this guy also can help you keep up your Mushussu in play and having fire runestones as the attribute with the largest number present in the board for the additional bonus. Late to say, but yes, so far he seems ideal for her.

[Image: 60] Dominance of Evils - Saruman: Suddenly Madhead decided to bring Saruman to the meta?... now your 4* Gnomes are deadlier than before, especially with their outfit. Now leaving the old memes in the past, his changed active skill makes it relevant for dark mono. The second active also makes it so you can use tumbler with him or with other elf teams that don't have their own tumbler team skill like Kurama.

[Image: 60] Bonepiles Control - Saruman: "This isn't even my final form!", so the thing with Divergence Saruman is that he becomes a Shonen villain, and with that, I mean that he can switch multiple times to stronger forms. Initial first active is okay but unless you have a skill that converts the entire board to Elf Runestones you won't see the full benefit, so you might want to trigger this skill and then switch. Leader skill is somewhat standard but allows Gods and Elf and prefers Dark Gods more than anything else. Honestly, I only see the condition of the switch as another recommendation to slot this version of Saruman as member for Loki... as if we didn't have enough members strictly designed for him that still don't bump his damage to current standards.

So yes, I think they want us to play something like this:
[Image: 50][Image: 45][Image: 45][Image: 45][Image: 45][Image: 50]

[Image: 60] Mask of Antelope - Saruman: Okay so now he is able to provide 6 Enchanted Dark Runestones for just 3EP and recovers 1EP if you dissolve 5> runestones, which makes it really efficient, thing is that outside of the already mentioned Loki I don't know which current dark team could benefit from running god and elves, the closest archetype would be Shiva but he is already pretty clear with the fact that he is better staying with Water Runestones.

[Image: 60] Mask of Demonic Antelope - Saruman: first skill remains the same as it was in the previous form, he loses recovery in order to get more HP and Attack, and that runestone transfer is pretty insane, able to provide up to 3.5x for 3 rounds?!, well that is too much but I am not sure if Loki would be the suitable guy, also you would need Hel to recover in that time so personally I do say we are better giving it a try in Artemis or Namtar.

[Image: 100?cb=20181130094906&path-prefix=zh] Lethal Boxer - Fist: I think that I am kinda needless to say how strong this active skill is, fits kinda well with Mellow because you can get 6 groups from the columns and if you plan your team members position accordingly it could be possible to get the 10 groups with a fixed board path.

[Image: 64] Devoid of Senses - Douman Ashiya: Another returning classic that got a bit more flexible and highly rewards on condition. It is okay to get him but I think there are better boosts than him right now. He can compete with Odous, but Odous active lasts for 2 rounds and have higher HP and healing amelioration.

[Image: 60] Rascally Inventor - Blodgett: I guess that it is better late than never?, She provides 15 dark and 15 light so you can make a perfect 10 combo board with her active and time tunnel, the dark humans always depend on light humans for archetypes like the teams of Long Kui, Huang Fu Duo or Yi Ye Shu and Ye Shiao Chai. Unless Madhead is planning to release something like that in the future she is quite unlikely to have a good team, other than serves as a good alternative for dark teams to get rid of WFE runestones.

Event Cards
Starting from this version Horror, Coliseum, Joint Operation, Guild War, and Guild Event cards will be listed together in this section.

[Image: 60] Serpentine Hiss - Lernaean: I don't believe that dragons needed so many damage nukes, but just having to think of this guy syncing with Novalis attack 9 times is way too much. Outside of that scenario, I would love to see a Water Dragon team which makes it as an alternative to Novalis.

[Image: 100?cb=20181216035828&path-prefix=zh] Illuminated Savant: Personally I just feel that this card was released to be a solution for those that were not able to get Hiei during YYH collaboration. This card is promising and I think that can be quite good with existing light demon monsters. He is also able to slot demons of other attributes so your usual Ubume, Samle, and Ghroth are okay here. I find it promising since we are yet to see the skills of the other 4 savants who might get the same leaderskill.

[Image: 60] Santa Claus the Inspired Thinker: PR Santa is something I have been waiting since forever and I am really impressed with all the things Madhead changed for him, he is a new free to play leader offering time tunnel and synergy with Floret, Fire Humans, or Human and Elves of any type as long as you know how to play him properly. The x6 multiplier doesn't look big enough but don't let that fool you because you are not exactly meant to play Santa as leader and adjutant. So since this is Xmast in the section below I will introduce a mini guide on how to play Santa in 2019. The combine skill with Scrooge was removed that being said I won't be recommending anyone to play dual Santa, instead Santa+Yusuke/Diaochan should be the real thing.

Bonus Guide: Santa for Dummies ?
I am going to say the P word and there is nothing you can do about it.
[Image: ZVvmosi.gif]

Background: Santa was released way too long ago, 2014 I think? and the thing is that his active skill had about the same multiplier as PR Norse Gods, so yeah everyone old combination was Santa + Protagonists + Daji just like it was in that era when Daji was the most used adjutant in the game and there were not many relevant or locked team skills at the time. We can translate that in to modern memes and mechanics and actually turn him in to a flexible leader or something for fun and in this section I will cover both. 

Active Skill: The Christmas Surprise active skill is CD10 at max level, this is flexible enough for a leader, the newly added boosting component is also a great part and I think is kinda okay since they removed the combine skill with Scrooge. 

In the current meta one of the biggest problems for Humans in many compositions was the lack of a proper time tunnel, the old santa stats have not aged well at all just like the starters and that CD 15 was awful, sure you could lower that but you would need Floret in the team. This Power Release finally solves that problem and makes it so teams like Yusuke, Gon, and Megumin finally have a free solution to metasphere (they do have access to some other cards that can do the same but it's hard to have any of those).

Leader Skill: 6x flat for 2 races is really good, specially since he doesn't ask for any condition like dissolving specific type of runestones for a bonus. Usually most standard leader skills for non-rare cards are 4.5x * 1.5x which translates to 6.25x.

Team Skills: Okay so the real strength of this fun leader is actually here.

  1. Changes the active skills of all 6* Protagonists and Kathering in to Sieging Force or Sieging force protagonists.

    All of this are 8 rows time tunnels with low cooldown, specially now that Dragonwares are a thing. This part of the team identity and having Khaos styled active that easy doesn't get any better than that. You will also be triggering the Dragonware 2nd skill bonus (self attack x2) easily since there is no excuse to not dissolve the 20 runestones.
  2. Changes Floret active skill so always meets the conditions for the dissolve and the boost at the same time.

    Way too conditional or matter of preference, personally I would skip unless you are playing mono fire version of Santa which is another classic that deserves it's own thread.
  3. Lower CD of the Ridiculous Elves.

    Even more conditional than Floret, don't play this unless you are doing Lilacse challenges on Discord or something.
  4. Stats of all Protagonists in the team is boosted by 1.5x!.

    This is without a doubt the strongest part, especially because Starters already have this skill if they have 3 of them in the team. So with 3 of them you get 1.3x in their recovery and 1.5x in all stats with Santa, and you can stack that on base recovery for 1.9x total with dragonware. When used with Cassandra you can reach really high Attack, so here you can take a look:

    [Image: unknown.png]

    Fixing this section thanks to [color=rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.6)]Gorngonz *[/color][color=rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.6)]#7029 over Discord who corrected my absurd formulas.

    [/color]
Recommended Adjutants

[Image: 50] Yusuke Urameshi: I think Yusuke is the most ideal overall because of the stat boosting, this will stack with Santa team skill and you will get all other goodies like the extra second of movement of runestones and shared runestone effect that can benefit 2 or 3 members. Yusuke also can go with Elves so if you decide to slot Shyplant or Shuta it can work. The only sad part is that you will be playing non-switched Yusuke, otherwise you will end up with Yusuke having shitty damage.

[Image: 50] Gon: Overall is the highest damage with built-in 16.2x conditional multiplier when switched, the problem is that you won't have on top recovery and HP bonus like when using Yusuke so it will depend on preference.

[Image: 50] Glittering Explosion - Megumin: I think there is not much point on using her as adjutant over Yusuke which offers way more stuff in his kit, the only reason we can consider Megumin as option is because of the snipe and the boosts that takes place in the portraits rather than left bar to prevent debuffs in certain enemy rounds.

Possible Team Members


[Image: 40][Image: 40][Image: 40?cb=20140622092413][Image: 40?cb=20140622092418][Image: 40?cb=20140622092423] Protagonists - Power Release: They are the staple members for Santa team, I highly recommend playing 3 of them to get the recovery team skill for what I explained earlier, also be sure to craft their dragonwares. The most recommended in my opinion are Molly, Sean and Endor. Duncan and Nathaniel have awful base attack. Nathaniel makes a bit more sense and gets benefit from Yusuke light/water runestones so that can be put in consideration as well.

[Image: 40?cb=20151117182240] Lamentable Clairvoyant - Cassandra: She is the one that unlocks the true potential of Santa team to be honest, so she should be your 4th slot. I know she is kinda hard to pull from the diamond seal but you can then go for the other Witches to replace her or go for any of the other cards that I will list next.

[Image: 40] Will of the Shriveling - Shyplant: if you are taking this card in to the team might be for 2 different scenarions. The first being that you don't have Cassandra and can get the team attack bonus from shyplant, or the second which is actually moving in to a build not focused entirely in the protagonists and using shyplant as legit source of damage reduction which in my opinion is fine. A WFE approach of Santa is also okay.

[Image: 40] Lullaby of Love - Ubume: Since the team is a rainbowish setup and Ubume won't attack anyway it is fine to take her instead of Shyplant or Cassandra, the attack bonus won't be the same, but this is all thinking about options and availability.

[Image: 40?cb=20170119122808] Authoress Katherin: To be honest her stage is one of the easiest to clear in the game and she serves as replacement to all protagonists in many teams because of the extra movement of runestones or better stats. She can use the Harp of Fantasia to make up for the lack of her own dragonware. Her skill in Santa is quite good because she can bring another boost for the protagonists in her active.

[Image: 40?cb=20171221093324] Floret the Christmas Miracle: CD8 for 2.6 team attack and explode light and dark. Don't go for this route unless you are playing mono fire santa or something like that.

Sample Teams

Merry Christmas! - 2018 Edition

[Image: 50][Image: 45?cb=20151117182240][Image: 45][Image: 45][Image: 45?cb=20140622092418][Image: 50]
[Image: 50][Image: 45][Image: 45][Image: 45][Image: 45][Image: 50]

I hardly believe anyone have crafted those dragonware in the same type, but it can be done in the future I guess, otherwise just craft the dragonware of the three protagonists you plan to use, and give Cassandra the same type of dragonary craft as the one you are planning to use with Santa (poorman workaround but allows you to stay with all the bonuses and stuff). This team have insane attack, more than enough time tunnels, 2 shared runestones effects, and absurd recovery when Cassandra is not turned on. Also forgot to mention that Santa 1.5x HP Bonus in Protagonists stacks with the bonus from Yusuke.

Actual leaderboard style team

[Image: 50][Image: 45?cb=20151117182240][Image: 45][Image: 45][Image: 45][Image: 50]

You saw it first here before any YouTuber did it.

Stay Warm at Home

[Image: 50][Image: 45?cb=20171221093324][Image: 45][Image: 45][Image: 45][Image: 50]

The Adjutant could be Natsu in 2019?, we don't know yet. Megumin could fit that part but as you saw above she doesn't bring much benefit. This team throws away much of the protagonist synergy to stay in a single attribute, I remember back in 2014 this was a thing with Taeyang taking Rococo position and Floret being replaced with Agnesi.

[Image: qAerqA7.png]
Wall of donors:
Tenmaru, Santa, Lilacse, Clueless, Thanyu, Furu, Dukevoid, Daddy, Nodius, Gilgamesh, k_sum, and Xsaren. 
Thank you guys so much for helping me and encouraging me to continue posting more content for this game and community!.


[Image: tgasfLe.png]


[GOS] Oriceles. UID: 64,287,068
Common adjutants: Latest patch members I manage to grab lol.
I'm Guild of Saviors president, if you want to join be sure to join the Discord server for information.
Reply
#2
Thank you for doing these. Even though I'm very caught up with the meta, I'm always interested in reading your meta posts.

Looking forward to the Egyptian seals. I love the artwork. Not so much the cat thieves.

Reply
#3
Same here, thank you for your hard work. i am well positioned also and have the skill to take down all sm and nm even with less optimal cards. However reading this helps me plan and prepare on how to move forward making me a better player.

That being said, i dont agree with your tier list. And while it is not a part of the thread overall, the s cards are what i refer to as meta discussion. Atlantis is old and no longer top choice. Mesopotamia is good but conflicts with a lot of cards thus leading to very frustrating circumstances. By comparison, mesopotamia was not as good as atlantis when released. he didnt appear much in months after he was released.

Even atlantis was overshadowed by the prologues however was still the water mono choice for 6 months until yusuke came about. Atlantis's power was designed to come from wz and cass which is now inferior. Basically it takes a while to bring up and u cant turn wz instantly off. In short, just use shiva or yusuke and go around this problem. Very little use of atlantis since summer and it wasnt overwhelming then.

Mesopotamia never had a chance imo. Madhead put stop gaps on him to manipulate advantages that would compete with other cards. he can be reset although not completely. You cannot alter drops for him and the board often has too much wfe and little to no dark/light for him. he does not make good use of gon, sariel, hideyoshi, and a whole load of other cards both earth and more. Multiple mesos are pretty useless.

The cards that are s cards are in order from best to worst are azathoth, yusuke, gon, pompei, aqua and daoloth. Azathoth shows up on everything, yusuke and gon have tremendous dmg and mostly immune to reset. Pompeii is a powerhouse and can use multiples of him to increase power plus prob will get better when more machina come out. Aqua completely changes things when skydrop will kill u and does it all well; basically she is operates different than all other leaders. Daoloth is the only light leader that can do most things and does it quickly. He is mostly the s choice because light is pretty neglected. In the end he can abuse fenrir and u control what runes turn to light every rd. He also appears in arena the last week of no bonus.

The new beast series is good but probably more like hindu gods where some cards are race locked. They are worth it and im sure MH will make stages for them. However none of them are special cards like the ones mentioned above. My feeling is we will be hoping for a beast upgrade next year this time.

My two cents...im sure things will change but it appears things are going this direction.

Reply
#4
If you check the main changes Atlantis is actually a candidate for going down soon, he has not received any major support since he was introduced and his damage is falling behind, yet he is the best water leader when compared to Aqua drawbacks. Regarding Yusuke, he is a different thing because of the race restriction instead of attribute allowing him to use Ubume and other off-color demons and elves.

Mesopotamia is a hard topic for me to talk about since I don't own her in any of my accounts, and I have only seen her as a heavy damage dealer with stats leaving open room for earth teams, yet the utility that earth mono has access to right now doesn't fit her so well.

Fenrir can't be considered light mono, breaks achievements, and many Scholars over discord voted Daoloth going down because of current popularity, not fully talking about what is efficient (so yeah he might go up a bit now that Zero memes are happening). Meta is not just what performs the best but also what the developer wants the players to use more often as a trend.

I agree that the actual limited time seal will be useful in the long run, but right now is not having a heavy impact. The game design team will need ideas on giving us a reason to actually play them once this patch is over.
[Image: tgasfLe.png]


[GOS] Oriceles. UID: 64,287,068
Common adjutants: Latest patch members I manage to grab lol.
I'm Guild of Saviors president, if you want to join be sure to join the Discord server for information.
Reply
#5
Top10 [Leaders] tosexpress ENG server 17/11/18:
1. Aqua
2. Azathoth
3. Mesopotamia (madhead created stage for earth this week)
4. Mellow
5. Terry (always on for travelers memories)
6. Daoloth!?!
7. Ghostie
8. Athena (alternative this week to meso)
9. Zero
Reply
#6
Just my individual opinion on some of these leaders which could potentially go down the tier list:

Atlantis - He is great, but abit out-of-tierS because (same reason as jtsmith: WZ and Cass are old-school boosters for him) and the fact that many meta stages tend to require non-water utilities, which will compromise the whole team. Yet, bringing him down to A+ is a touch questionable because of Aqua's current A+ tier ranking. Yet, at least his built-in utilities are much better than Meso to make up for the lack of cards to boost him. In other words, he is a jack-of-all-trades but now he is a master-of-nothing like he used to be in the past. Still good enough to stay on tier S because of his outstanding generic kit.

Mesopotamia - She is great, but, as pointed out already, many earth utilities don't fit her overall kit so well due to her 2-dissolve for light/dark runes, active skill boost herself only and the condition to keep her power means that it is hard to store when her active is on. Also, her 2-dissolve also means too random damage even though Circe helps her damage. Her build for optimal performance is at least wider than Atlantis and can easily deal 40 million per turn with Circe and Meso leader and ally activated alone. Her consistent damage output definitely trumps Atlantis hands-down, but her utilities she, as a card, provides are not very practical (combo shield ignore) because these enemies are not as common. Despite her weaknesses, she can easily beat many more meta stages than Atlantis (Eternal Prison Copper Bullet stage, Sunnie stage, etc) than one could imagine.

Khaos - Despite his notorious kit, I feel that he has the potential to go down due to a lack of proper damage as dual-leaders despite offering a wide range of benefits from time-tunnel to stat boost to seal lord active boost. At best, I think he is A- material with a red border for having Lancelot with the new Demon Dragonware from gathering all tunestones at eternal prison (x4 from his active skill with 1.3 x 1.3 from Khaos leader skill combined with x 1.1 from dissolving heart runes and another x1.5 from dissolving more than 20 runes). His damage definitely makes him B+ material but his generic capabilities will definitely increase his tier to A-. Even the once famous Lionel-Khaos is no longer popular due to a lack of recovery which many stages emphasize on, so I think he is A- tier material hands-down.

Daoloth - Daoloth is great as a leader but definitely not tier A material. Losing popularity due to current meta stages requiring more than what his kit and available member pool provides (In other words, he is in need of more members to choose from other than the usual Frenir and Colin). Yet, moving him down is a bit questionable because of TSZ/Maya since Daoloth is stronger than them by 2 tiers. He can stay on tier A but borderlining to tier A-
Reply
#7
https://www.facebook.com/TowerOfSaviors/videos/197806767809253/

Saruman & 4 gnomes reach a new height.
ID: 25.610.510

Welcome all friend request.
Reply
#8
Updated with new cards and youkai ar, might take another revision soon.
[Image: tgasfLe.png]


[GOS] Oriceles. UID: 64,287,068
Common adjutants: Latest patch members I manage to grab lol.
I'm Guild of Saviors president, if you want to join be sure to join the Discord server for information.
Reply
#9
Hi Oriceles, thank you for your hard work to help every player keep up with the current meta but I would like to suggest (not implement) the following changes to your tier list:



Khaos to B+ tier. He is great, with a wide range of utilities to choose from (especially with Diablo and Nidhogg) but his overall damage output is painfully lacking and takes veteran spinning to get the most out of him. However, his overall damage output can be greatly improved by using Lancelot and the demon dragonware from gathering all tunestones in Eternal Prison, but still, it still takes veteran spinning to get the most out of Lancelot. Furthermore, he does not provide sufficient extra spin time (I doubt many people will put any beast into a Khaos team without a good reason), so getting max damage from Lancelot with that dragonware is rather difficult.

Daoloth to B+ tier. Popularity is dropping because he is seriously lacking a decent utility and the fact that he cannot heal without hearts (unlike Azathoth). He also does not have a good pool of members to choose from.

Aqua to A tier. Aqua is great and fun to play, but even so, her overall kit is comparable to that of BBL. Aqua has a wider range of utilities but generally lower damage, while BBL has a narrower range of utilities but generally much higher damage (especially with PR Anu in the team). Also, getting the most out of them is somewhat equally difficult. So, I think it is fair to rank them equally together.

Megumin to A tier. With a gameplay similar to Egyptian Gods and a snipe skill unmatched by other snipers, she is decent enough as a leader. However, without any continuous boosters, her damage is kinda underwhelming and takes veteran spinning to get the most out of her. Furthermore, she does not provide any extra spin time with a kit like this.

Darkness to A– tier. Awesome damage with insanely high HP and a decent damage reduction. The main problem with her is that it is annoying to constantly keep her multiplier at max (in my opinion) and the fact that her recovery is good, but not good enough to keep up with her insane HP.

And also, as I expected, TSZ gets downgraded to B- (damage is seriously lacking, cannot heal without hearts and does not provide any utility. Even he does not provide any extra spin time to make up for his lack of damage at the VERY least) and Maya gets downgraded to B (Strangely, I find Maya better than TSZ if any fusion is not used in TSZ team. She may be seriously lacking damage and has unpredictable damage, but she has 2 decent utilities to use unlike TSZ, in which, her damage and unpredictability can be taken A LITTLE lightly)
Reply
#10
(11-26-2018, 01:25 PM)SRBTS12345 Wrote: Khaos to B+ tier. He is great, with a wide range of utilities to choose from (especially with Diablo and Nidhogg) but his overall damage output is painfully lacking and takes veteran spinning to get the most out of him. However, his overall damage output can be greatly improved by using Lancelot and the demon dragonware from gathering all tunestones in Eternal Prison, but still, it still takes veteran spinning to get the most out of Lancelot. Furthermore, he does not provide sufficient extra spin time (I doubt many people will put any beast into a Khaos team without a good reason), so getting max damage from Lancelot with that dragonware is rather difficult.
I've been considering to track Lionel+Khaos and Khaos+Khaos performance recently. I haven't seen much of Lancelot being the main DPS tool, I am more familiar with Fire Lionel + Smilodon leaders with Khaos adjutant so I will check more on that.

(11-26-2018, 01:25 PM)SRBTS12345 Wrote: Daoloth to B+ tier. Popularity is dropping because he is seriously lacking a decent utility and the fact that he cannot heal without hearts (unlike Azathoth). He also does not have a good pool of members to choose from.
I can't agree with popularity, a lot of players use Daoloth as their choice to go for farming, yet I do agree that his performance for challenging stages is something else. I do agree that he does need more utility, but just like Azathoth, he tends to be picked when you can brute force a stage. B+ sounds too harsh.

(11-26-2018, 01:25 PM)SRBTS12345 Wrote: Aqua to A tier. Aqua is great and fun to play, but even so, her overall kit is comparable to that of BBL. Aqua has a wider range of utilities but generally lower damage, while BBL has a narrower range of utilities but generally much higher damage (especially with PR Anu in the team). Also, getting the most out of them is somewhat equally difficult. So, I think it is fair to rank them equally together.
Can't agree with Aqua having low damage. Atrahasis is meant to be played with Gods to take the most out of the God runestones, their gameplay is also pretty different and if Atrahasis was more efficient he would be popular as her right now, even with all the new perks on ignoring board Hazards people would rather go for the 87% damage reduction and fool proof combo count that god blow offers.

(11-26-2018, 01:25 PM)SRBTS12345 Wrote: Megumin to A tier. With a gameplay similar to Egyptian Gods and a snipe skill unmatched by other snipers, she is decent enough as a leader. However, without any continuous boosters, her damage is kinda underwhelming and takes veteran spinning to get the most out of her. Furthermore, she does not provide any extra spin time with a kit like this.
I wonder, what type of members are you using with Megumin?, team compositions that are not around Konosuba members tend to include overpowered god cards with strong utility, check my previous meta analysis for reference. In this patch she does lack presence, but same I could say for Gon. Her drawback is precisely not having time extension.

(11-26-2018, 01:25 PM)SRBTS12345 Wrote: Darkness to A– tier. Awesome damage with insanely high HP and a decent damage reduction. The main problem with her is that it is annoying to constantly keep her multiplier at max (in my opinion) and the fact that her recovery is good, but not good enough to keep up with her insane HP.
Not happening. Keeping the multiplier at full is easy as long as you are not trying to steamroll... which in that case why would you pick a grind leader in the first place?

(11-26-2018, 01:25 PM)SRBTS12345 Wrote: And also, as I expected, TSZ gets downgraded to B- (damage is seriously lacking, cannot heal without hearts and does not provide any utility. Even he does not provide any extra spin time to make up for his lack of damage at the VERY least) and Maya gets downgraded to B (Strangely, I find Maya better than TSZ if any fusion is not used in TSZ team. She may be seriously lacking damage and has unpredictable damage, but she has 2 decent utilities to use unlike TSZ, in which, her damage and unpredictability can be taken A LITTLE lightly)
Yeah I've been playing both of them every now and then and I have to say that TSZ in skilled hands is very powerful, but he doesn't offer as much power as other black cards and he does really need an update, I would also like to see Rakshasa being able to turn off her active skill on demand with refund and Anubis receving Team Attack or at least God Attack boost upon deactivation instead of Dark God. Is funny how black cards are suffering from power creep right now.
[Image: tgasfLe.png]


[GOS] Oriceles. UID: 64,287,068
Common adjutants: Latest patch members I manage to grab lol.
I'm Guild of Saviors president, if you want to join be sure to join the Discord server for information.
Reply


Forum Jump:


Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)