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Next VR series has Gods in it + Next Black card is Fire Machina
(05-15-2018, 10:38 PM)vespher Wrote: About greeks, I would love if I was paranoid, but I did countless stages using them since VR.  

I'll use example of Athena, since I played with her most.

I noticed that the bigger the initial dissolve is, the less combos you will get. For example, izanagi active + sariel active, that gives full green board. Someone would expect huge combo count and appropriate burst for the investment of 2 active skills. What happens is, runedrop gives 6-12 combos max, very rarely something above that, it goes so far, that I almost felt the need to make a few videos showcasing this in 10 random attempts for example.

Then we have a case of dissolving 5 elements runes on board+ 2-3 groups of greens which seems as best case scenario and it nets 12-19 combos.

I can't remember the last time I did a 20+ combo on greek team, and believe me, I learned to spin very well. Also, Turing active breaks the greeks runedrop since it converts half the board into hearts and those don't contribute to greek teamskill.

Most significant thing I noticed is, that when atk of monsters goes up during combos, it is almost as if greek team has a switch programmed to stop dropping runes when team reaches 60k-100k base attack before adding combo multipliers and attacking. Anything above 100k and you can expect runedrop to stop entirely.

Don't get me wrong, Greeks are awesome and versatile, but if I didnt have Iron Fan in team, I'd simply totally quit using my Athena team.

Next up I will make a Hephaestus team, and the reason I'll make him is again simply because I have 4x Kyo Kusanagi (I'll use 1-2 though) for perma x9 bursts which again mirrors the case of Athena where I use Iron Fan for bursts. 

Burst is unreliant if you spin too well and Madhead probably tampered with some numbers to prevent huge combos/base atk value, if they didn't Greek teams of each color would overpower any new team and card series, simply because they can use any members and even off color fillers, cause they are too good if you know how to make best use of them in hard stages.

If I was a developer, I would too, from a financial standpoint, make older series a little worse, but still worth it so that you don't feel bad when you draw them from regular seals, as they can't be allowed to outshine new series.

Sorry if I went a little offtopic, but greeks have now bothered me for a month, as in some arena runs/ultimate stages / biweeklies I find myself telling myself WTF, over some runedrops, but luckily they cost me a stage pass only 1-2 times and rest of fails are if I fail to spin well.
You seem to have completely misunderstood how VR greeks work.

Every off-color element dissolved nets you 3 more runes. So a board with only earth on it for Athena would of course yield relatively less skydrop, you're getting 12 less runes.

And yes more space free=less combos because more runes are dropping with each dissolve and what is guaranteed by VR greek teamskill is a number of runes dropped, not a number of combos reached. The number of combos is determined by how the skydrop lands, not by anything relating to the leader or teamskill.

The best way to get more combos is to build "walls" of runes that will not dissolve between two dissolving spaces so that runes land in a more constrained trickle. Dissolving your whole board will always get you less combos, and converting away off colors will always get you less skydrop.

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After VR, it is pretty damn normal that you won't get 20+ combo. It's pretty much stable at around 15 combo, with strong enough of a burst and recovery. Madhead may have made PR origins and PR primal greeks weaker than newer releases, but VR greeks was really strong upon release, and even up till now (with much higher stability too compared to their PR state).

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Omg I can hardly believe it got the buff I was hoping for x.x I am so getting this card now Big Grin

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After trying him, his Recovery is not a problem at all, can easily recover 15k health each round.
However, charging up is still some problem, so it'll be a good idea to bring fast converter
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Yeah he has no issue with recovery at all. But I feel like unless you have 3 in a team (including Ally), the damage won't be game-breaking by today's top team standards. Currently using PR yogg instead since I only have one copy, and PR Yogg's 2nd active would probably not be "debuffed" since your HP is very high.
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(05-15-2018, 10:38 PM)vespher Wrote: I noticed that the bigger the initial dissolve is, the less combos you will get. For example, izanagi active + sariel active, that gives full green board. Someone would expect huge combo count and appropriate burst for the investment of 2 active skills. What happens is, runedrop gives 6-12 combos max, very rarely something above that, it goes so far, that I almost felt the need to make a few videos showcasing this in 10 random attempts for example. (be aware im accounting for "3 Attributive God Runestones will be generated for each Attribute of Runestones dissolved, to the max 15 Runestones to be generated.")

but why would you use full board convert in Greek ... when your stones are now programmed to clump together unlike in pre-PR greek. You dissolve 3 columns with walls and can stack over 20 combos if RNG loves you.
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(05-16-2018, 04:20 PM)spacelion Wrote:
(05-15-2018, 10:38 PM)vespher Wrote: I noticed that the bigger the initial dissolve is, the less combos you will get. For example, izanagi active + sariel active, that gives full green board. Someone would expect huge combo count and appropriate burst for the investment of 2 active skills. What happens is, runedrop gives 6-12 combos max, very rarely something above that, it goes so far, that I almost felt the need to make a few videos showcasing this in 10 random attempts for example. (be aware im accounting for "3 Attributive God Runestones will be generated for each Attribute of Runestones dissolved, to the max 15 Runestones to be generated.")

but why would you use full board convert in Greek ... when your stones are now programmed to clump together unlike in pre-PR greek. You dissolve 3 columns with walls and can stack over 20 combos if RNG loves you.

I don't do that in SM stages, but its fun to do in biweekly stages because you practically can't fail them. It was part of testing of all kind of dissolves for greeks.
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(05-16-2018, 03:49 PM)Max_LKC Wrote: Yeah he has no issue with recovery at all. But I feel like unless you have 3 in a team (including Ally), the damage won't be game-breaking by today's top team standards. Currently using PR yogg instead since I only have one copy, and PR Yogg's 2nd active would probably not be "debuffed" since your HP is very high.

Tbh, with all those chaser attack, and add in Smolidon, Pompeii should out damage Yog. (I might be wrong though)

I'll try to do the math for it.
Assume team is at 100% fuel
Yog in Pompei Team with active on: Damage = 3270*16*5 = 261600
Pompeii by fulfilling 6 lock rune condition: Damage = 3196*16+3196*16*0.25*2+3196*16*0.4*6 = 199430.4
Pompeii by Fulfilling All conditions: Damage = 3196*16+3196*16*0.25*2+3196*16*0.4*6+3196*16*0.5*2 = 250566.4
We can see that Pompeii by fulfilling all condition deals nearly as much damage as Yog, but remember we can still add in Smilodon for Pompeii. It's true Smolidon for Yog still deals more damage, but it takes 95 team cost total just to have both Yog and Smilodon on the team. So yeah, I was wrong, PR Yog with Active on in Pompeii Team deals more damage than leader Pompeii. Btw, my math sucks so I might have made some mistakes Sad


Also I think Pompeii outclasses most other fire leader. Better than Hep (needs shakuro, still God of overheal though), more hp than phanes while maintaining consistent damage and recovery, the extra spin time makes it easy to spin 8 combos (Yog is limited by all the spin tune reduction from all stages nowadays). The damage is definitely there, it's just not easy to see because of all the chaser attack. 

Edit: My math was wrong, forgot to multiply pompeii's attack by 1.6. Please check my later post for the corrected version
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After several weeks playing pr yog team, I found it smilodon is not the best patner for yog.
The best yog team I play so far is yog, khaos, groth, luna, fire bride, yog.
I think pompei far stronger than yog.
My pompei team atm,: pompei, agnesi, fire bride, medea, rococo, pompei
Agnesi ready at 5th turn and can use pompei active twice in 12 turns.
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(05-17-2018, 12:05 AM)wong ah neh Wrote: After several weeks playing pr yog team, I found it smilodon is not the best patner for yog.
The best yog team I play so far is yog, khaos, groth, luna, fire bride, yog.
I think pompei far stronger than yog.
My pompei team atm,: pompei, agnesi, fire bride, medea, rococo, pompei
Agnesi ready at 5th turn and can use pompei active twice in 12 turns.

My set up is similar which is: Pompeii, Smilodon, Agnesi, Medea, Rococo, Pompeii. 
I'm thinking a fast converter that does not covert Heart, Earth and Water away will be great, something like a Fire Swegde/Hideyoshi (There's still no fire version of Swegde/Hideyoshi right?) would be great. that would not only help charge up the fuel faster, but also keep WFE+heart rune on board for the leader and team skill. The problem with Rococo is it converts away heart, which is already fire runestone (the alternate form second active is great though). So I'm thinking of Running VR Seth instead.
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