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Guild war is the beginning of the end for TOS
#1
Guild war represents a turning point in the development of the game. It's a subtle shift which signals that MH has abandoned its prior strategy of game development.

At its heart TOS has always been a PvE (player versus environment) game. There are leaderboards and there have been various attempts to pit players against one another such as the now defunct multi-player and arena. All of those revolve around MH setting the rules and players then beating MH: which enemies you'll face, what their skills are, what team makes it easiest to complete the stage.  While arena allows the player to set some cards, MH by dictacting which bonus cards are usable that week essentially controls which arenas will be easiest and hardest to clear.  So throughout its development, the most challenging parts of the game are where players attempt to beat what MH sets up, not beating other players aside from leaderboards which offer no significant rewards.

With the introduction of guild war the balance shifts towards an overall PvP (player versus player) game where the stages themselves are relatively simple, 5-7 stages of moderately difficult enemies to control as much of the game board as possible.  The current rewards structure is simplistic.  I suspect it represents MH's attempt to playtest this new game mode without potentially upsetting a lot of players in case bugs were uncovered. The bland rewards (madheads, baby harpies) for the winning army don't represent enough of a distinction that anyone will really care whether they are in the 1st, 2nd or 3rd place army.  However, once this game mode has been debugged sufficiently it represents the opportunity to introduce unique rewards that will drive the collectors, whales and others who play intently to spend more diamonds and effort on winning the overall war.

In the current guild war it makes little sense to spend 20 stamina on a 4 stage battle when that same stamina can get you a 7 stage battle and therefore more personal and guild points for maximum rewards.  The only reason to spend the stamina on smaller stages would be to win the overall war, but given the mediocre rewards there's limited incentive to do so currently.  However, that's easily remedied once it matters who wins and who doesn't.

For example:

1st place army: Unique card that fits into current meta + harpy + madheads
2nd place army: Harpy + madheads
3rd place army: madheads + baby harpies

Suddenly winning does matter, especially if that unique card then confers an advantage such as 10% bonus points in the next guild war.  At that point MH doesn't need to spend as much time on level design, the stages can be the same and it's just a matter of which players are willing to spend more stamina (diamonds) to control as much of the board as possible, potentially by coordinating with their guild members on which territory they plan on attacking that day, etc.  It generates a whole new meta-game that could potentially increase player engagement amongst the most interested in this new game mode.

PvP games generate more revenue because in the end people want to win, especially over other people.  It's just not as interesting to beat a computer.  And with a pool of 5 years worth of players MH is probably gambling that a switch from PvE to PvP will generate enough whales that the drop off of the overall player base will be more than compensated by the increased spending of the remaining players.

This represent pure speculation but in the end MH is in it to make money.

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#2
I don't agree with you, and I'm probably in the minority on it. I remember reading something that they are working on another area (10th seal possibly, but I think they like the void area and will be doing any future stories through that). They are releasing a new area in the memories area, I'm pretty sure, next week or soon. I think the guild war will show up about as often as guild events, though hopefully they won't do them back to back. It also makes sure that something they coded in the game isn't left by the wayside. Ever since they took multiplayer away, I think they've been looking for a way to allow people to use spirits. They have Jo and now they have guild war. There are things that could be better, but not bad for a first iteration. I do expect it to be costlier next time. It's too easy to get rewards. My guild had all rewards the first day and I know there are newly created accounts getting to 8000 points within less than a full spirit run (most could make 8000 points in just 2 spirits and I know others can do it within 4 and possibly 6. You have 8 every day). I think if they're going to increase costs, rewards should get better. I've gotten lots of PSS, which is a slap in the face imo.

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#3
I see where you are coming from, and while I am sure that they have created content for both styles, I believe that they have always sought to enter the PvP market. Multiplayer did not work, Arena is used, but I am not sure if player spending is where they would like it. I assume the result is Guild Wars. I honestly do agree they seek to push PVP, because releasing seals does not exactly make them money (the way other things would). They may be relying on seals too much and are attempting to diversify.

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#4
I don't think they're ever going to limit cards that are meant to be f2p like that, they've never done it before even though they've introduced a couple of different "PvP modes," and so many people have already been complaining about this one. MH is pretty interactive with its playerbase, tends to change things when the playerbase is very vocal (the hard buff to Maya and the Brides VR for example). It's just a slippery slope argument that doesn't hold much ground imo, and it's predicated on the belief that MH has never wanted to have more PvP style gameplay in the game, which, based on the arena and old multiplayer, is obviously untrue.

I agree with the theory that they're trying to diversify reasons why people spend on the game, as well as them trying to recycle old systems that nobody was using. They are trying to make money yes, this is their business, what's so wrong about that? They're not going to suddenly stop doing all the other stuff just because they keep trying to make more engaging multiplayer experiences.

At most I can see a system like Guild War rewarding dimes, which is enough of a reason to do Arena (even though I hate that game mode). If they cut the stamina cost, Guild War with dimes or even just harpies as a reward would be super worth. If there is card rewards, it'll probably be like Horror stages where you get a slvled one for winning, and an untrained one just for participating enough.
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#5
While I agree with you that MH is here to make money, I think you may be reading too much into it. As it currently stands, Guild Wars simply presents yet another form of PVP and Spirit expenditure that MH is experimenting with.

There is no question that, if MH chooses to do so, they can introduce a unique card as a reward for guilds placing first or, hell, even the top three. However, the longevity of TOS as a predominantly PVE mobile game indicates that there's no need for a strong PVP experience, if at all, for TOS to continue to thrive. And really, if you're really going to argue about whether TOS is dying, I'm just going to redirect you to my thread about TGS. <<

Hopefully, MH realises that they don't need to turn TOS into a P2P PVP experience when they've already come so far on a PVE platform. What I can foresee is perhaps that they release a card as an early-bird reward in Guild Wars, then re-release it to the public at a later date through some alternative scheme, similar to Dark Zeus.

...

However, it's possible that they're in a bit of a slump due to Chronos Gate failing and Oneric Tales apparently not doing well and therefore looking to make a cash grab.
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#6
I dont agree because arena for cn version is 10 times worse than this could be. In en its not so bad because we have less players but for cn there is little reward if any for nonspenders.
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#7
(02-11-2018, 05:27 PM)jtsmith Wrote: I dont agree because arena for cn version is 10 times worse than this could be.  In en its not so bad because we have less players but for cn there is little reward if any for nonspenders.

Yeah. I'm on EN and I hate Arena. I just use Guan Yu or Maya, a starter and as many bonus points cards as I have. I literally just get what points I can with this, never spend a dime, and am always in Legend I (once I was in II). I can't imagine what it would be like on the CN server.

Arena, multiplayer and any of the PvP items in this game just annoy me as they are I think the game has enough to do every day as it is. I just keep doing them for the rewards though. I didn't mind the old multiplayer though as it could be used to skill level cards pretty quickly and cheaply.
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#8
I'm not a fan of the PVP modes myself, although Arena rewards are great. I just wish they would implement a proper real-time coop mode instead (JO doesn't really count let's be honest). PAD has one so I don't see why ToS doesn't follow suit.
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#9
This comes as a surprise, I didn't know so many people thought so poorly of the Arena. I actually enjoy it quite a bit even though I haven't yet, and probably never will get to top 100. I dunno, for me it beats having to redo long and convoluted SMs over and over any day of the week, especially when the card just refuses to jump skill levels. To each their own I guess. I just wish they'd bring back multiplayer because I didn't even get a feel of what's it like. Any soul care to enlighten me as to why they removed it in the first place? Was it because people were able to take advantage of the system in some way? Multiple UIDs?
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#10
(02-12-2018, 01:31 AM)put1572 Wrote: This comes as a surprise, I didn't know so many people thought so poorly of the Arena. I actually enjoy it quite a bit even though I haven't yet, and probably never will get to top 100. I dunno, for me it beats having to redo long and convoluted SMs over and over any day of the week, especially when the card just refuses to jump skill levels. To each their own I guess. I just wish they'd bring back multiplayer because I didn't even get a feel of what's it like. Any soul care to enlighten me as to why they removed it in the first place? Was it because people were able to take advantage of the system in some way? Multiple UIDs?

Arena for cn ppl not en.  Since not many ppl play en as cn but the reward pool still for cn size.  I avg around 300 to 200 rank without using dimes every week.  With the server population u are guarenteed 8 dimes each week if u play carefully each day.

Cn i would be lucky to win anything.  Tons of ppl in competition with few if any easy arenas because either they are made super hard or if easy they are grabbed up fast.

The only thing that miffes me about en arena is that u have guilds cheating the system by setting easy mobs up then because so few arenas spending gold coin to reset untill easiest arena appears.  It got better when they made lvl99 required.

However its still screwed up and i have to compete and pay dimes if i want to get top 100.  Its not a lvl playing board.  But i can still get dimes and harpy each week so idm too much but its still unfair pvp.
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